Ring Dings
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- Chief Steward
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:18 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 25
Ring Dings
Hi there,
I had an interesting conversation over beers the other night with some old salties who've sailed their whole lives. They told a bunch of dismasting stories, and tried to convince me to replace the rigging on my new-to-me '84 Mac25 (no idea how old the standing rigging is). However, after probing it became apparent that most of those stories started because a cotter-ring sheared off, not because the rigging snapped. Replacing the standing rigging wouldn't strengthen the cotter rings.
So... I started looking for larger-gauge cotter rings, and it appears that 8-18 is the only gauge I can find anywhere, which provides very little strength. Compared to the cotter pins on my trailer, 8-18 is nothing.
I was thinking of just using larger-diameter key rings instead, but I wonder if anyone has a good reference for a better, stronger cotter ring solution?
Thanks!
I had an interesting conversation over beers the other night with some old salties who've sailed their whole lives. They told a bunch of dismasting stories, and tried to convince me to replace the rigging on my new-to-me '84 Mac25 (no idea how old the standing rigging is). However, after probing it became apparent that most of those stories started because a cotter-ring sheared off, not because the rigging snapped. Replacing the standing rigging wouldn't strengthen the cotter rings.
So... I started looking for larger-gauge cotter rings, and it appears that 8-18 is the only gauge I can find anywhere, which provides very little strength. Compared to the cotter pins on my trailer, 8-18 is nothing.
I was thinking of just using larger-diameter key rings instead, but I wonder if anyone has a good reference for a better, stronger cotter ring solution?
Thanks!
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- Admiral
- Posts: 2441
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:32 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: NH, former 26X owner
Re: Ring Dings
Realize that cotter pins and rings dings dont take an actual load, they just keep the clevis pin from sliding when the load on it is relaxed. As with the rigging, cotter pins and ring dings should be inspected at least at the being and end of the season. The pins (preferably stainless steel) are degraded to fail due to corrosion and multiple bendings. Clevis pins and their holes should be inspected for wear as well.
- Tomfoolery
- Admiral
- Posts: 6135
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:42 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Rochester, NY '99X BF50 'Tomfoolery'
Re: Ring Dings
What K9 said, and I'd add that it's best (IMO, at least) to put the ringdings on the inside of the chainplates, rather than the outside. Harder to install, but much more protected. I also tape them.
Genoa sheets, spinnaker sheets, fender whips, and even dock lines in some cases can rub against the ringdings when they're on the outside, and pull them open. I've almost lost a couple that way, even with tape (and it was a darn good thing they had tape), until I started putting them inboard.
Forestay has a giant ringding, and I wrap that with tape, but not around the pin, as it's the long pin from BWY. Just taping the ringding is effective, and I put an eyeball on it every time I take the dock lines off to go for a sail, since I'm right there.
Genoa sheets, spinnaker sheets, fender whips, and even dock lines in some cases can rub against the ringdings when they're on the outside, and pull them open. I've almost lost a couple that way, even with tape (and it was a darn good thing they had tape), until I started putting them inboard.
Forestay has a giant ringding, and I wrap that with tape, but not around the pin, as it's the long pin from BWY. Just taping the ringding is effective, and I put an eyeball on it every time I take the dock lines off to go for a sail, since I'm right there.
- sailboatmike
- Admiral
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:17 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Australia
Re: Ring Dings
For those that lift their mast before each sail, checking your clevis pins and ring dings should be part of your rigging check list, every time you splash, on most of our boats there are 10, 2 on each side stay, one on the forestay and one on the backstay (if you have one), in total it takes less time than it takes me to type this post, maybe 2 minutes.
For those of us that live mast up, its a bit harder to remember but should be checked before we cast off.
Many of us have a checklist we work too, it would be a good addition to the checklist.
Im not big on taping them as that means I cant see them to check they are secure and in good condition, the old "out of sight, out of mind" but everyone to their own,
I knew someone that actually had a couple missing without knowing and had been sailing for obviously a while like that, that wasnt a Mac it had a big heavy old fashioned mast and if his mast had come down it would of done serious damage to not only the boat but anyone near it
For those of us that live mast up, its a bit harder to remember but should be checked before we cast off.
Many of us have a checklist we work too, it would be a good addition to the checklist.
Im not big on taping them as that means I cant see them to check they are secure and in good condition, the old "out of sight, out of mind" but everyone to their own,
I knew someone that actually had a couple missing without knowing and had been sailing for obviously a while like that, that wasnt a Mac it had a big heavy old fashioned mast and if his mast had come down it would of done serious damage to not only the boat but anyone near it
- kurz
- Admiral
- Posts: 1165
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:07 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Zürich, Switzerland, Europe
Re: Ring Dings
By the way: There are different designs of the ring dings. The factory ones... I replaced all since I lost 2 times ring dings: One on a stay (did notice bevore something got wrong), another one one the stay adjuster while trailering, maybe there I lost 2, becouse I lost the complete stay adjuster. (could use one from the reeling to do the trip...)
So I replaced all original one with this design:
https://www.svb-media.de/media/1447/ima ... 5c9489.jpg
Since I have these I had no fails anymore...
So I replaced all original one with this design:
https://www.svb-media.de/media/1447/ima ... 5c9489.jpg
Since I have these I had no fails anymore...
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- Deckhand
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:38 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Raleigh, NC (2003 26M, Suzuki DF 50)
- Contact:
Re: Ring Dings
My wife and I had our first trip out on our new to us 2003 26m without the mast this past Sunday and one of the pins came out. I turned the pins facing inwards I guess a dock line pulled it out. I taped the chain plates together to stop them from clanging together but I didn't put tape on the pins. Spares came with the boat, lucky we weren't trying to sail for the first time.
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- First Officer
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:43 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Niagara Falls, NY 2000 26X w/Honda BF50 "NoneShallPass"
Re: Ring Dings
Those look easier to install that the standard round ones. You got a source for them?kurz wrote:By the way: There are different designs of the ring dings. The factory ones... I replaced all since I lost 2 times ring dings: One on a stay (did notice bevore something got wrong), another one one the stay adjuster while trailering, maybe there I lost 2, becouse I lost the complete stay adjuster. (could use one from the reeling to do the trip...)
So I replaced all original one with this design:
https://www.svb-media.de/media/1447/ima ... 5c9489.jpg
Since I have these I had no fails anymore...
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- Engineer
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:44 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Decatur, Ga
Re: Ring Dings
So I replaced all original one with this design:
https://www.svb-media.de/media/1447/ima ... 5c9489.jpg
I have these from the previous owner on my stays. They work great. I use fishing pliers on any that just have the key (split) ring style. There is a tip on most fishing plyers that is made to open the split rings.
https://www.svb-media.de/media/1447/ima ... 5c9489.jpg
I have these from the previous owner on my stays. They work great. I use fishing pliers on any that just have the key (split) ring style. There is a tip on most fishing plyers that is made to open the split rings.
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- Chief Steward
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:18 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 25
Re: Ring Dings
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know where I buy find the style that kurz and nauti neil show pictures of?
I know that they're not supposed to have any load on them, but from what I've heard failures sometimes occur when load is placed on them. According to two stories I heard, under high wind conditions the attachment points for the stays (the kind found on my Mac25) twisted or bent and sheared off the cotter rings. I suspect this is the same reason that cotter pins for trailers are thick steel and not 18-8. They don't usually receive any load, but if they do get a little they need to handle it.
I know that they're not supposed to have any load on them, but from what I've heard failures sometimes occur when load is placed on them. According to two stories I heard, under high wind conditions the attachment points for the stays (the kind found on my Mac25) twisted or bent and sheared off the cotter rings. I suspect this is the same reason that cotter pins for trailers are thick steel and not 18-8. They don't usually receive any load, but if they do get a little they need to handle it.
- Sumner
- Admiral
- Posts: 2375
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:20 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26S
- Location: SE Utah
- Contact:
Re: Ring Dings
Duckworks shows that style on this page....
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/fasteners/rigpins/index.htm
and you can order here, but they don't really show a picture ...
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/fasteners/clevis/index.htm
Might be best to call them. I have some like that and think I got them from them. They are easier to put on with the tang sticking out but that can also hang on something and possibly help to undo them.
I like the ones in the picture above as they are still easier to put on and the tang part faces in. You can find them at Defender on this page...
http://search.defender.com/?expression= ... Trigger=ac
Sumner
============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015
The MacGregor 26-S
The Endeavour 37
Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links
- Don T
- Admiral
- Posts: 1084
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:13 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: 95 2600 "SS OTTER" - Portland OR - Tohatsu 50 - Hull#64 (May 95)
Re: Ring Dings
I like the ones in the picture above as they are still easier to put on and the tang part faces in. You can find them at Defender on this page...
http://search.defender.com/?expression= ... Trigger=ac
Sumner
I use the ones pictured above for the forestay but use the smooth ones for all the standing rigging cuz' I don't have to un-pin any of that for trailering etc and I don't want the sheets to get snagged on them.
Don
============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015
The MacGregor 26-S
The Endeavour 37
Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links[/quote]
- sailboatmike
- Admiral
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:17 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Australia
Re: Ring Dings
fritz3000g wrote:Thanks everyone. Does anyone know where I buy find the style that kurz and nauti neil show pictures of?
I know that they're not supposed to have any load on them, but from what I've heard failures sometimes occur when load is placed on them. According to two stories I heard, under high wind conditions the attachment points for the stays (the kind found on my Mac25) twisted or bent and sheared off the cotter rings. I suspect this is the same reason that cotter pins for trailers are thick steel and not 18-8. They don't usually receive any load, but if they do get a little they need to handle it.
I suspect this is the same reason that cotter pins for trailers are thick steel and not 18-8 - I would assure that is because steel is much cheaper than stainless steel and rusted bits on trailers are acceptable but rust on boat just looks bad
IMHO the the stay adjusters should only be under tension (pulling load) not shear (across) loading, if the rig is adjusted correctly I would worry more about the rig adjustment if the adjusters bent, just think about it, the shroud should only pull in a straight line from their anchor point up the shroud
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- Admiral
- Posts: 1791
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:05 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Toronto Canada
- Contact:
Re: Ring Dings
I am always concerned about the forestay. To my eye, it is the weakest part of the whole structure.
My forestay end sits in a trough that's got to be 1cm wide. That means 1cm length of clevis pin. This just looks and feels wrong.
My forestay end sits in a trough that's got to be 1cm wide. That means 1cm length of clevis pin. This just looks and feels wrong.
- Sumner
- Admiral
- Posts: 2375
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:20 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26S
- Location: SE Utah
- Contact:
Re: Ring Dings
You really should have a toggle at the bottom of the drum...DaveC426913 wrote:I am always concerned about the forestay. To my eye, it is the weakest part of the whole structure.
My forestay end sits in a trough that's got to be 1cm wide. That means 1cm length of clevis pin. This just looks and feels wrong.
.... like in the picture above (also should have one at the top of the forestay. More on those here....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ever-1.jpg
Also how do you tension the forestay? Is there a turnbuckle inside the drum? Before we had a furler the turnbuckle was at the bottom of the forestay and I always tightened it once I attached the forestay. Now I set the turnbuckle in the drum so that the forestay is tensioned once the Johnson Lever is flipped into position. I've wanted my rigging tightened more than you can with just pinning it.
If you stay with what you have I would at least make up some spacers so that the pull on the pin is straight and not at an angle like in the pictures where it might be putting more pull on the ring-ding. The ring-ding should see no real forces on it,
Sumner
============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015
The MacGregor 26-S
The Endeavour 37
Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links