26X forestay length

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vulcan98
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26X forestay length

Post by vulcan98 » Sat May 18, 2019 6:17 pm

My mast has always lean toward stern at about 98 degrees from deck mast mount. If I tension the upper shrouds to set tension in forestay I have a too much bend in mast. Set lowers ones to take bend in middle out then I have hard time pinning forestay. Thinking forestay maybe too long (currently at 27' from top loop to bottom of CDI furler)or am I missing something?
Thanks Derwin

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Tomfoolery
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Tomfoolery » Sun May 19, 2019 7:00 am

vulcan98 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 6:17 pm
. . . or am I missing something?
Maybe. Sounds like you’re adjusting the shrouds correctly, which will tension the forestay to where it’s difficult to pin. Make sure the back stay is loose (I use a turnbuckle to tension afterward), and crank down on the mast raising system (MRS) until you can pin the forestay. It’ll stretch the other rigging, but it’s wire rope, and that’s what it does - stretch. Elastically.

Others have rigged some extra help to pull on the forestay, but I can’t comment on that, as I just use the MRS to bring the mast forward enough to pin the forestay.

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vulcan98
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by vulcan98 » Wed May 22, 2019 2:51 pm

Worked on it last few days and got it much better. My turn buckle would not tighten due to threaded ends bottoming out on frame support in middle. Cut threaded ends shorter, drilled holes back for cotter pins. Gained about 3/4" (or shortened head stay). Tightened lower stays then upper stays, back and forth. Never used back stay. I am at 94 degrees and head stay good and tight. Liked to have gotten 90 to 92 degrees but then I would need head stay shortened. Thanks tomfoolery for the reply.

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Newell
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Newell » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:32 pm

Vulcan98,

"I am at 94 degrees and head stay good and tight. Liked to have gotten 90 to 92 degrees but then I would need head stay shortened. Thanks tomfoolery for the reply."

Do you have any update on performance changes by moving from 96 to 94?

I just dropped my mast back from 90 to ?? but @7" at deck behind mast. Ran 16 recorded tacking tests, with jib and genny mostly in light winds.

I think the pointing has improved 7-15 degrees. My old friend the roundup showed up once, I wrote this off to sailing without ballast in a gust.

Newell :macx:

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Dougiestyle
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Dougiestyle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:30 pm

I have the same problem as vulcan98. I have shortened my turnbuckle where it bottoms out, but I have not had a chance to set up the mast yet (boat under cover for winter). It looks like I was able to shorten the forestay by about 3 inches. Not sure what degrees it will be, I'm hoping for 92 to 94.

Interesting fact I read on 1 of tom foolery's post. If your mast is 28ft tall with 4 degrees, its almost 2 feet from straight up, at 6 degrees or more (like mine?). It would be 2.93ft angled towards to stern. Which would make the boat more sensitive to rounding up. Which happened in wind 8 to 10 mph.

I was curious if you have tested yours with the new 94 degree setting?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Tomfoolery » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:43 pm

I’m not at work so I’m not on my CAD machine, but as I recall, the 4 degree figure is to the deck immediately in front of the mast. But with the boat waterline horizontal, that surface in front of the mast isn’t level. So if using the halyard to set the angle, make sure to tilt the boat bow or stern proud so that surface is level before setting a plumb offset.

I’m saying this from memory, so do check the manual first, which is where that angle is indicated.

And for the record, I removed much of the mast rake, as rounding up with nothing more than fun sailing conditions is not my idea of fun. I’ve sailed long enough to know when to ease the sheet, and I don’t want the boat doing it for me.

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Newell
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Newell » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:44 am

Dougiestyle wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:30 pm
I have the same problem as vulcan98. I have shortened my turnbuckle where it bottoms out, but I have not had a chance to set up the mast yet (boat under cover for winter). It looks like I was able to shorten the forestay by about 3 inches. Not sure what degrees it will be, I'm hoping for 92 to 94.

Interesting fact I read on 1 of tom foolery's post. If your mast is 28ft tall with 4 degrees, its almost 2 feet from straight up, at 6 degrees or more (like mine?). It would be 2.93ft angled towards to stern. Which would make the boat more sensitive to rounding up. Which happened in wind 8 to 10 mph.

I was curious if you have tested yours with the new 94 degree setting?
I raced Saturday with ballast, genny, and 11 other boats. Started first, finished last, no roundups, genny sheet broke loose once, still waiting to see if the analysis will indicate that tacking angles are improved from past record. :| :macx:

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Bobsquatch
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Bobsquatch » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:01 pm

I seem to recall my standing rigging is fairly loose. I aslo have a few broken strands in the upper forestay eye. I am going to replace all my rigging this season, probably from BWY unless some one in San Diego points me elsewhere. My first instinct was to get the upgraded forestay, stronger is better right? After some reading on this forum, I am thinking maybe not. Apparently the stock forestay is pretty robust and the :macx: mast is engineered
to that stock size. I am not against the heavier stay per say. I just want what is best for the boat. I anticipate 70/30 slip/trailer. I also need to adjust my rigging. I don't think I need to be as accurate as a loos gauge. I will reread the manual to adjust to 92ish degrees if I can. I am a big guy, 6'4"-300+ lbs. I have the mast raising system and a cdi furler. What do you guys/gals think. Its time to start ordering. Let me know...

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Tomfoolery
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Tomfoolery » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:44 am

IMO, it's just as cheap to buy from BWY as it is to have rigging custom made. I made my own backstay, but bought the rest since my crimper doesn't have dies for 5/32" rope, which is what the side stays are.

The standard forestay is 1/8", which I ordered, but BWY sent the heavier forestay for the same price. While I'm not in the 'bigger is better' camp on rigging, in the case of the forestay, I think it probably actually is better since it's the only piece of standing rigging that seems to go bad reliably and with great consistency - at the top, around the thimble and top swaged oval.

It takes a beating up there, both when sailing, and when being handled with the mast down. That heavy, sagging furled sail puts a bend in the forestay, which I believe is the main reason it weakens at that termination. So having extra metal is just insurance.

BWY does a nice job for a competitive price, and supplies the side stays with the tangs, ready to install. The forestay has the swaged stud for the turnbuckle inside the furler. If you went local, bring your old rigging so they can reuse the tangs, match the lengths, and get the turnbuckle stud right, too.

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Bobsquatch
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Bobsquatch » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:41 am

Thanks Tom, I think I agree with you on this. These boats are not high performance enough to mandate the perfect elasticity in the rigging. All my rigging is in fairish shape but it is coming on 20 years old, so piece of mind... It will be nice to have brand new, reasonably tuned rigging at the beginning of the season. As it settles in and my abilities improve, I may notice a difference the next time I lower the mast and retune. Presumably next season a well tuned rig on day 1 should last all season. I am all for using BWY to support and hopefully continue a valuable parts source.

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Russ
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Russ » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:32 am

Tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:44 am
IMO, it's just as cheap to buy from BWY as it is to have rigging custom made.

BWY does a nice job for a competitive price, and supplies the side stays with the tangs, ready to install.

Agree with this. I also prefer to support the only Mac parts dealer just to ensure they are there in the future.

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Tomfoolery
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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by Tomfoolery » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:00 am

Bobsquatch wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:41 am
These boats are not high performance enough to mandate the perfect elasticity in the rigging.
Yeah, I gave that some thought when I ordered 1/8" and got a 5/32" forestay, but the forestay is not the one I'm concerned about as far as elasticity goes. Just structural integrity and resistance to damage, and of course, since if you lose the forestay, you lose the mast (if no backup is employed).

I would not change the other stays, though. I crank my MRS hard, which stretches the side stays, and make the pin on the forestay. It always relaxes back to where I had it set, as measured with a Loos gauge, so I'm happy.

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Re: 26X forestay length

Post by leefrankpierce » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:07 am

I replaced my forestay with the thicker cable from B.Y. I am glad I did as I found many strands of my forestay broken and wrapped inside my furler so you did not see them until pulling everything apart.
While replacing, I added a lever type shroud tensioner:
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherma ... ecordNum=6
And the roller bearing kit from B.Y.
As this made my forestay much longer, so I moved the upper connection point higher on the mast.
I can measure mine, but, the way I determined it was to leave the forestay adjustment at its longest point, tied the top of the forestay to the mast with a wire so it would slide. (a small rope on the back side helped) raised the mast, and then pulled the forestay down until I could easily make the connection with the lever open. Then after drilling and moving the forestay connection, I can easily connect the forestay, and then pull tension on the forestay with the lever. I now had the room to adjust to nearly 90, and now my backstay is tight with the lever open.
The downside of this is now my foresail is at a different angle to the boat, so the front sheet pullies are really not in a good place. I have ended up putting pullies on the safety line poles where the loop is that the safety line usually connects, this is a bit too high for the wench but servicable. This makes the lines go outside the shrouds which I think actually corrects my tendency to oversheet and gets the boom up higher for better headroom in the cockpit.
I find the setup much easier to rig. I think the boat points better, and I can see under the forsail. I intend to add a more proper forsheet pully system in the near future and get new sails that fit the new shape.

Lee

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