Adding a forestay forward of furler?

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glasshopper77
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Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by glasshopper77 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:50 pm

Has anyone done this on a :macm: ? Reason I ask is last night the mast fell down while under power. We were on Lake Michigan with 12 knot winds and decent sized waves. We dropped all the sails and secured them. Raised all the fins and powered full throttle. Well, the mast fell...

After we docked I found the culprit. The bracket under the furler drum broke. I ordered a new drum and the ball bearings and new line.
Has this happened to anyone else? Seems to me the furler should be able to handle the conditions in which we were motoring but maybe I'm wrong...

So, that being said, I would like to add a forestay forward of the furler for some piece of mind if the furler forestay ever gives out again.
Looking for some ideas how to mount this. I was thinking maybe buy the extended bow roller and mount it there? Or maybe just a piece of thick stainless?


Image

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Dougiestyle
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by Dougiestyle » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:25 pm

Several people tie a rope from the top of the forestay to the bow pulpit as a safety catch?
I have not got this on mine yet, but will at next outing.
Dougiestyle
1998 26X , Nissan 50D, "Water Buffalo"

glasshopper77
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by glasshopper77 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:31 pm

Dougie,
That sounds brilliant! Since the mast is umm already down I will add a line to the top. I'm not looking for anything structural just to avoid the mast from falling cause that sucked big time.

Thanks!!

Starscream
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by Starscream » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:54 pm

I've done that on my X. I've posted about it on this site, with photos.

I think it's more complicated on an M, but on the X it was very easy. A new mast hound, two rivets, some shackles and a turnbuckle, and the backup forestay is attached to the mast carrying bracket on the bow pulpit.

Maybe the reason it was hard on the M is the rotating mast? Or maybe there isn't a convenient way to attach it to the pulpit like there us on the X? Don't know.

It is great peace of mind. And it makes lofting and pinning the mast much easier.

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:15 pm

glasshopper77 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:50 pm
After we docked I found the culprit. The bracket under the furler drum broke. I ordered a new drum and the ball bearings and new line.
Has this happened to anyone else? Seems to me the furler should be able to handle the conditions in which we were motoring but maybe I'm wrong...

Image
Was that little flat steel loop attached to the forestay chainplate via a toggle? There’s supposed to be a tee-bolt toggle the takes the load directly from the tee-bolt on the bottom of the turnbuckle, not that little strap (in the photo), which is just there to prevent drum housing rotation and takes no load of any kind.

Or did the toggle break? If it did, it shouldn’t have taken the strap with it, but I suppose that’s possible.

And yes, that forestay can take motoring loads in a rough seaway, and then some.
Tom
Be seeing you . . .

glasshopper77
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by glasshopper77 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:57 pm

When we were limping back in to the slip I was thinking the u shaped piece (is that the toggle?) or the pin broke but after docking I noticed those pieces were still in place. The bottom of the furler drum ripped out of those.
Image

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by Tomfoolery » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:14 am

That’s why it failed - the t-bolt was and still is bearing on the bottom sheet metal of the drum housing, and the toggle was hooked to the strap. That thin strap is not supposed to take any load at all, other than preventing the drum housing from twisting.

You have to pull the pin and slide the drum up to fully expose the turnbuckle. Remove the t-bolt from the turnbuckle, which should be wired or cotter pinned, put the toggle over the threaded stem of the t-bolt, then reassemble. The strap goes back on after the drum is slid back into place.

When you pin it back to the chainplate, the load path is chainplate-pin-toggle-t-bolt-turnbuckle housing and on upward to the forestay. The new strap will pass through the toggle, but with air space.

Check the manual, especially page 7.

I hope nobody got hurt. And that the mast is OK. :)
Tom
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Starscream
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by Starscream » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:54 am

I agree with Tom, it looks like the T-bolt at the end of the furler was not being used, and the mast was only being held up by the little anti-rotation bracket.

Here is what it should look like:
Image

As far as I can tell, the T-bolt wasn't being used in your setup. Sorry to hear that happened.

Starscream
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by Starscream » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:58 am

Even better photos here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26466

glasshopper77
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by glasshopper77 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:30 am

Tomfoolery wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:14 am
That’s why it failed - the t-bolt was and still is bearing on the bottom sheet metal of the drum housing, and the toggle was hooked to the strap. That thin strap is not supposed to take any load at all, other than preventing the drum housing from twisting.

You have to pull the pin and slide the drum up to fully expose the turnbuckle. Remove the t-bolt from the turnbuckle, which should be wired or cotter pinned, put the toggle over the threaded stem of the t-bolt, then reassemble. The strap goes back on after the drum is slid back into place.

When you pin it back to the chainplate, the load path is chainplate-pin-toggle-t-bolt-turnbuckle housing and on upward to the forestay. The new strap will pass through the toggle, but with air space.

Check the manual, especially page 7.

I hope nobody got hurt. And that the mast is OK. :)
Aahh yes, the T bolt was not toggled....this is how the furler was rigged when I bought it. I do have experience with furlers (our catalina 22 has the same one) but I have never put one together which is why I missed the T bolt issue.

We will find out if the mast is ok today (was raining all yesterday). I think we are going to take the mast all the way off the boat (its in the crutch now) for a couple weeks so I can do some upgrades, and we can motor way up river with the mast down.

And yes we are ok, a little annoyed and embarrassed but we made it. The mast fell slightly off the port side and was kinda in slow motion....

Thanks for the explanation

glasshopper77
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by glasshopper77 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:45 am

Starscream wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:54 am
I agree with Tom, it looks like the T-bolt at the end of the furler was not being used, and the mast was only being held up by the little anti-rotation bracket.

Here is what it should look like:
Image

As far as I can tell, the T-bolt wasn't being used in your setup. Sorry to hear that happened.
The moment I saw this picture I knew it was rigged wrong...the previous owner rigged it that way and I have never put one together so that is how I missed it...now I know.

Thanks for the picture! I have a new drum with stainless bearing and line on the way and am excited to see how much better the furler performs.

glasshopper77
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by glasshopper77 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:06 am

Ok, so we got the mast and furler in the backyard ready for some repairs. Looks like no damage was done to the mast itself but the mast step is bent.
And now there is a quarter size hole in the deck where the mast smashed. Any ideas on what product to patch that up? How about filling it with some fiberglass...

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John Christian
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Re: Adding a forestay forward of furler?

Post by John Christian » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:12 pm

:macm: Before purchasing my 07 I spent a lot of time reading this forum and there has always been much angst regarding the single pin that attaches the furler.
While my dealer assured me it was up to the task , I installed a jib halyard anyways. Necassary for raising a jib cover, and if tied off to the bow pulpit might just hold long enough to take evasive action.

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