Jib Winches

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delevi
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Jib Winches

Post by delevi » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:45 pm

I'm wondering how many of you use your winches to help trim the headsail. I always use mine, and haven't tried trimming without. The reason I ask is that I'm considering buying a set of Bill's EZ Cleats, which appear to put the jib sheets right next to the helm... super convenient, but the compromise is giving up the use if the winches. In my typical, strong wind conditions, I wonder if it will be an issue. Thoughts?

Frank C

Post by Frank C » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:09 pm

In 90% of cases I trimmed the jib without using the winches. But when winds are over 15, the Genoa is a handful to hand-trim. Since you have a standard jib, I think you'll be fine.

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delevi
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Post by delevi » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:31 pm

Frank, you must have strong arms. I took the afternoon off last Friday and went sailing with a friend for a few hours. There was a nice breeze, I'm guessing 20 knts with gusts. (didn't measure) but I had my main reefed to the factory reef point from the get-go. I experimented trimming the jib without winches and it was very difficult. I had to put my whole body into it. Didn't keep it up for long until I went back to the winches. I ordered the EZ cleats last week anyway, but I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts. I guess they'll come in handy on the lighter days and when using the spinnaker.

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Scott
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Post by Scott » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:48 am

To quote Bill, "To trim yer sheets without winches, come a little into the wind until the sail luffs, trim and fall back off."

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delevi
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Post by delevi » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:07 pm

Suppose that would work, but sure isn't efficient. Won't win many races doing that (not that I ever raced.) Now if you discover your trim isn't quite right, you need to do it all over again. I think when the wind is anything but light, I'll stick to winching.

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DLT
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Post by DLT » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:14 pm

I've never used my winches, except as someplace to hang something...

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norbert
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Post by norbert » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:01 am

c'mon folks, i am a strong guy and can pull with my 200 pounds of weight but when sailing upwind in a strong breeze i am not able to tighten my jib sheets as far as i want without using the winch! and trimming the spi without having the sheets on the winch is definitly dangerous. you ont be able to hold it and risk to burn your hand if the line runs out - even when wearing gloves.

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Richard O'Brien
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Re: Jib Winches

Post by Richard O'Brien » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:21 am

delevi wrote:I'm considering buying a set of Bill's EZ Cleats, which appear to put the jib sheets right next to the helm... super convenient, but the compromise is giving up the use if the winches. In my typical, strong wind conditions, I wonder if it will be an issue. Thoughts?
Delevi, I bought some from Bill, and It appears to me that you can still use your winch. It will be cleated before the winch instead of after, but that shouldn't matter unless you're trying to ease it under load? Maybe Bill can advise us?

Frank C

Cross-sheeting the Jib

Post by Frank C » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:48 pm

I always wear sailing gloves, and always take two wraps around the winch. I have sometimes used the winch handle for the Genoa, but never felt the need for the jib. I just don't like dealing w/the winch handle ... too likely as a tripping & tangling hazard.

Even in heavier winds, I've been able to simply plant my feet and heave-ho for the standard jib. But I sometimes cross-sheet the jib when winds are stiff. This is when the boat is really heeling, so it's nice to work at the windward (upside) winch.
  • - take just one wrap on the leeward winch;
    - lead the jibsheet beamwise, with two wraps at the windward winch;
    - now you can manage the sheet at the uphill cleat;
    - and you can "sweat-in" the sheet just 2 inches, as follows;
    - grab & pull on the sheet, midway between the winches;
    - take-up the slack into the uphill cleat.
I prefer to manage the sails myself. If I have a non-sailing guest, I always have them drive while I handle the jib and mainsail. I took Joe, a pool hall buddy, sailing on the Bay on a mild winter day. He wanted to try sheeting the Genoa, so I said sure ... put on the gloves and trim it in, just a touch ... at which point he just groaned at the line, not moving it at all.

I said, "What's a'matter SALLY, no Wheaties this morning?" At that point I hauled the long run of Genoa sheet just afore its turning block on coaming track (sweating it just like the jibsheet between winches), and took-up a couple of inches at the winch, still without a jib crank. Got some laughs next evening at pool league - his new nickname is "Sally" - still does get some laughs! :D :D

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delevi
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Post by delevi » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:08 pm

Frank,

I like your cross-sheating idea. Much more convenient working on the windward side. A bit of a mess while tacking, but a great setup if you're planning to be on the same tack for a while.

I guess I'll start working out so I can use the EZ cleats. They just arrived today. I'm a bit surprised they don't have a spring loaded pin to set on the genoa comaing. Lookls like a screw needs to be tightened to fix each cleat on the coaming. :|

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Scott
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Post by Scott » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:40 pm

I am only assuming but I feel as if the spring loaded pin would be in the path of the sheet.

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Jeff Ritsema
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Post by Jeff Ritsema » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:53 am

I installed these Anderson self tailers and really pleased I did. Can sit at the helm and tack without moving, one on each side, great for single handling. Not cheap; I was able to pick up at a 50% WM sale 2 years ago. Also in a great spot for the spinnaker sheets, again helpful when self tending. The lower pic is the winches we have on the Odin, similar location as on the Mac. I still use thes for mast raising, and halyard work, things I don't mind leaving the helm for.
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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:37 am

I've been looking at adding STs to the aft corners for several years now, and they are beginning to bubble toward the top of my list. Anderson 12ST or Lewmar 14ST are the smallest ST size each company makes and tend to run upwards of $430/ea normal price, but I've seen the Lewmars regularly go on sale at Defender for $310 or so. I've read Andersons were considered better by Practical Sailor, but in five years I've never even had the stock Lewmars on my Mac apart, so they seem plenty good enough, and I'm not sure the extra $200 or more per pair would be justified.
I've tried eBay a couple times but go figure, they tend to sell there for above retail; I guess sailors can be morons to.

In any event I'm not willing to head up in order to tension the sheets, otherwise I would have saved a lot of $$ and sprung for those nifty sheet cleats Bill at B4S offers long ago. If I could have come up with an alternate use for them once I got the $$ for my STs, I would have bought them as an interim solution.

Frank C

Post by Frank C » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:56 pm

Here ya go, Chip ... Harken 16.1ST Winch on eBay, currently $200 including shipping (3 days remaining). HarkenStore (for standard ST winches) shows it as their only one-speed ST winch.
It's $385 at pyacht.com ... add only $50 for chrome or bronze! :D

I track various stuff on eBay, including Harken stuff. The same day you posted about ST winches - voila! Unfortunately the prices usually seem to spike during the final few hours of each auction. I've sometimes seen eBay auction bids go higher than the prices you can buy the same stuff online.

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Post by Catigale » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:30 pm

You would think there should be a boatload :wink: of winches down South going cheap off trashed boats...wonder where these all end up?

Are there the equivalent of boat chop shops??

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