26x Hull condition assessment

[Seapup]

Hello everyone, I did not see an introduction section, so this will be my first post. I have been considering replacing my 19' potter with an X for the past few months and have a potential candidate. It’s a fairly neglected 2002x. I looked at it in September, but now the owner is motivated to sell and willing to negotiate.

Details: Original owner, Purchased in 2003. Boat kept in slip in brackish water. (Chesapeake) The boat has sat unused for at least 2 years in the water, and is on the trailer now. Not sure how old the bottom paint is. The bottom has a lot of barnacles and growth. He must have left the rudders down because they have growth on them. The motor is a non original (newer) honda 50hp with low hours, looks clean. The overall outside of the boat is very faded and neglected looking. The Inside looks OK.

I am going to look at the boat again tomorrow or Thursday. I figure rigging, sails, and interior are fairly straightforward. I have never owned a boat that sat in the water.

How much growth is a normal amount that can be easily removed?
Are there specific areas of the hull I should inspect and what should I look for?
Are there problems I can find that may be overlooked if I don’t know what to look for?
Is there anything particular to look for with the ballast system?

I plan to do any repairs myself if I purchase the boat, so want to make sure they are manageable for a new, but mechanically inclined person.

Any other tips?


Thanks, Alex

[DaveB]

Get a Marine survey, two years in water even if it has a Epoxy Barrier coatings and bottom paint you may have osmosis of the gelcoat. If there is no epoxy barrier coat you probably do have osmosis and if no bottom painting you do have osmosis problems. Clear off a 3 square ft. area of bottom and that will tell you a lot if you see small bubbles in the gelcoat, you have osmosis and thats water penetrating the gelcoat causeing blistering.
Dave

Hello everyone, I did not see an introduction section, so this will be my first post. I have been considering replacing my 19' potter with an X for the past few months and have a potential candidate. It’s a fairly neglected 2002x. I looked at it in September, but now the owner is motivated to sell and willing to negotiate.

Details: Original owner, Purchased in 2003. Boat kept in slip in brackish water. (Chesapeake) The boat has sat unused for at least 2 years in the water, and is on the trailer now. Not sure how old the bottom paint is. The bottom has a lot of barnacles and growth. He must have left the rudders down because they have growth on them. The motor is a non original (newer) honda 50hp with low hours, looks clean. The overall outside of the boat is very faded and neglected looking. The Inside looks OK.

I am going to look at the boat again tomorrow or Thursday. I figure rigging, sails, and interior are fairly straightforward. I have never owned a boat that sat in the water.

How much growth is a normal amount that can be easily removed?
Are there specific areas of the hull I should inspect and what should I look for?
Are there problems I can find that may be overlooked if I don’t know what to look for?
Is there anything particular to look for with the ballast system?

I plan to do any repairs myself if I purchase the boat, so want to make sure they are manageable for a new, but mechanically inclined person.

Any other tips?


Thanks, Alex

[Divecoz]

Osmosis has been discussed here for a zillion words or more ..
I have, as do many others PIN HEAD something going on. I dont have what we see in the sailing magazines in the DIY or the Repair sections as BLISTERS..
I have had them for no less than 4 years ...4 winters . Its 11 degrees outside... Right Now ..
If there was any water behind those "blisters" they would POP! They never have. I have discussed at length the process of repair with my brother ... Mr. Perfection.. and have reminded him numerous times, this is NOT a Concourse Show Quality 1958 Corvette. We will repair with Marine Tec ( as he suggest and insist..)and it may or maynot ... be Optically...perfect... but this issue will be permanently repaired .. Then Barrier coat and done.. I intend for my boat when Not In Use, to Live on a Boat lift.. Got to Love The Mac and its 3500 to 4000 LBs. weight factor when purchasing a boat lift.. Cost for materials? about $100 for the repair .. The barrier may well cost me more depending on which product I choose.. All That Said... IMHO

[Catigale]

Alex - the Potter is a much higher quality and cost boat than a Mac. If you have a look at a Mac, you probably know this already. The beauty of the Mac niche is the light weight allowing simple trailering/launching and a stripped down

With > 5000 hulls made, and no record of FG failure due to osmosis, I am of the firm opinion that blistering in Mac hulls is a cosmetic and resell issue only.

[Seapup]

Thank you for the advice everyone, I spent the evening researching blisters and plan to read more about it before I go to look at the boat again. Its uncomfortably cold for the next few days anyway. Have heard about osmosis issues, but never had to look into it or the repair before.

Get a Marine survey,

I know this won't be "cheap", but its the smartest idea. If it comes to a concrete offer I will probably get one.

Clear off a 3 square ft. area of bottom and that will tell you a lot if you see small bubbles in the gelcoat, you have osmosis and thats water penetrating the gelcoat causeing blistering.

Will do. Small pin pricks are normal but anything larger is the issue correct? If I find something I will take pictures of it and hopefully get a second opinion. Is there any "problem" areas on hull that will be better targets to clear off, or just pick somewhere easy?

The beauty of the Mac niche is the light weight allowing simple trailering/launching and a stripped down

With > 5000 hulls made, and no record of FG failure due to osmosis, I am of the firm opinion that blistering in Mac hulls is a cosmetic and resell issue only.

We absolutely love the potter, its just a bit tight for an extended stay for us. We were initially turned off by the "modern" look of the x, but after listing the pros/cons for several months decided the cabin space and motor capabilities were large enough advantages to outweigh the disadvantages. We plan on keeing the potter until we find a replacement, so I am not going to rush into a sale if its not right.

[Divecoz]

For sure Seapup , keep us in your loop.
Marine Survey? No Doubt that will run into a couple hundred bucks or more?? There's no foam or wood in these boats, that I am aware of to degrade.. and cause delamination issues... so whats the point in that cost? Motor is pretty darned important and if its been stored in Freezing weather that could raise a flag...
I would be interested in knowing , if the present owner allows you to... Scrape His Hull to the Gel Coat for a 3'x3' area.. That's a lot of dirty work..too.
I have a 2005 M so my personal experience may be irrelevant.. But I would look.... for "blisters" Pin Head Size .. in the back 1/3rd and in the middle of... the hull. That's where I have ALL mine..
Finding a deal? Well its winter here in Illinois and unless your looking in the Florida Keys or there abouts .. It should be as good as it gets for bargaining power .. No Doubt again .. I am preaching to the choir, but I suggest looking here ( in the classified section) and everywhere else you can find to see what the going price is and bargain away... Actually unless that boat is open to the weather ( the cabin) Next year it will be in relatively the same shape its in right now...BUT he'll be listing a boat thats now 1 year older... Christmas Time is a Great Time to buy Big Used Toys..

[Seapup]

Marine Survey? No Doubt that will run into a couple hundred bucks or more?? There's no foam or wood in these boats, that I am aware of to degrade.. and cause delamination issues... so whats the point in that cost?

I was quoted today: "If you would like only the hull inspected, the fees would be $85.00 per hour including travel and report time with a minimum of two hours. The report could be verbal, e-mail or a formal written report. If you would be interested in a full Pre-Purchase Condition and Value survey, the fees for that would be $468.00"

I am going to see what I can see first. I still have to ask about clearing an area on the bottom, I was thinking one or two patches of about 12"x12" should hopefully give me an indication.

[DaveB]

I work with fiberglass every day in Sun Splash water park. I previous done many of my boats re glassing, fiberglassing,gel-coating,drying out blisters, cutting holes in hull to remove saturated concrete ballast..ETC..
If you have small blisters 99% of the time it is because of poor layup in the first cloth layup between Gel-Coat and cloth.
This is usually caused by air voids and resin not saturated with cloth and flared out to remove all air bubbles.
Gel-Coat will absorb water and if left in water without epoxy barrier coatings will absorb water and fill those tiny voids.
Over time this builds up a acid and starts spreading to larger bubbles and if left untreated will delamate the fiberglass cloth layup.
Blisters don't POP, they spread out, expending and build up acid. In extreme cold, blisters can become so brittle (freezing 32F or below ) some may develop cracks and this would drain fluid out of the blister.
If you haul your boat and Store for winter I would recommend cking for any blisters and sand them open and rinse with fresh water and in spring it should be ready to fill in as the hull will be dried out.
Dave

Osmosis has been discussed here for a zillion words or more ..
I have, as do many others PIN HEAD something going on. I dont have what we see in the sailing magazines in the DIY or the Repair sections as BLISTERS..
I have had them for no less than 4 years ...4 winters . Its 11 degrees outside... Right Now ..
If there was any water behind those "blisters" they would POP! They never have. I have discussed at length the process of repair with my brother ... Mr. Perfection.. and have reminded him numerous times, this is NOT a Concourse Show Quality 1958 Corvette. We will repair with Marine Tec ( as he suggest and insist..)and it may or maynot ... be Optically...perfect... but this issue will be permanently repaired .. Then Barrier coat and done.. I intend for my boat when Not In Use, to Live on a Boat lift.. Got to Love The Mac and its 3500 to 4000 LBs. weight factor when purchasing a boat lift.. Cost for materials? about $100 for the repair .. The barrier may well cost me more depending on which product I choose.. All That Said... IMHO

[bartmac]

I guess less relevant in the US.......it's a trailor boat....have a good look at the trailor....can be costly

[Seapup]

Thanks again. I talked to the owner again tonight and she has no problem with me clearing an area of bottom paint, so I am going to stop over tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to get some accurate information about the specifics of the boat, use, maintenance-lack of, and its accessories. I figure step one is assessing the hull, finding out if it has blisters, if so how severe, then progress from there.

[Catigale]

seapup - whats the asking on this puppy? There are lots of boats in various classifieds so you know what market value is...

[Seapup]

seapup - whats the asking on this puppy? There are lots of boats in various classifieds so you know what market value is...

Started off asking 14k, said they will take 10k, I am thinking 8k.

Stopped by after work today. It is an ugly dog

Only the high school aged son was home so didn't really get any concrete answers about it.

From what I gather it was bought new in 03, slipped 03-05, and has been on the trailer since 05 and not sailed. Somewhere in there it was stolen from the driveway, motor removed, and turned up at a walmart. Insurance bought a new motor that was only used once to test it. Dad said kids didn't like sailing when I talked to him the first time, kid said dad just took it out by himself a handful of times. Registration expired in 05.

At one point while on the trailer they started to scrape the barnacles off but didn't finish. Chunks of bottom paint are missing everywhere. I sanded it down with 800 grit in 3 places and saw no signs of blistering. (that I could tell) The barnacles left marks, but with a little polishing of the 800 those right came off. Felt perfectly smooth afterward. To my eye the hull looked OK (obviously needs redone)

[Seapup]

Of concern is an area where the boat probably came into contact with a pile. Its solid on the ends, but cracked enough where with a decent amount of force you can flex it.

[Seapup]

At some point the rudder must have came into contact with the prop.





The rest of the exterior looks astonishing that its actually a 2002.




All of the stays, the mast, and spreaders look fine.

The headsail on the RF is garbage, I am assuming it the genny.

There is a brand new headsail never used, lapper or jib I am guessing.

The main is still the factory doyle, missing 1 batten, but looks crinkly fresh like it was hardly used.

All lines that were stored on deck will need replaced.

The interior looks like new, no signs of water or water damage anywhere. Cockpit cushions were stored inside and good condition.

So I am looking at complete sand repaint of the bottom
Sand/polish all topsides
Repair work on the rudders and rubrail
New sails
New lines
Hopefully just new batteries, gas tanks, gear and motor oil for the motor
Probably new tires and lights on trailer. Surprisingly it looked to be in decent shape.

So with all that what are the experienced opinions?

Thanks, Alex

[Divecoz]

Alex if he'll accept $8K you just got yourself a deal.. That's Minor damage and thats all that is, minor damage, a quick fix.. I already did it on mine..
( dont get me started on #$%^&*redneck Hulk Hogan Wannabes and Crazy reckless use of boats!!)
IMHO after reading this post you made .. with all the cleanup etc sanding painting.. Look at Painting the Black Areas around the windows ....NOW while you can and your in the mood.. No Less than a MILLION words in print on this site about the black gelcoat!! @#$%^&*((*&^%$#@#$%^&*&^%$#@#$%^&