Secondary forestay again

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Harry van der Meer
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Secondary forestay again

Post by Harry van der Meer » Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:21 pm

Last season I tried my regular jib for the first time on the furler (I normally use the 150 genny). I was impressed with how well the boat pointed in winds of 10 kts or more. As you know, changing sails on the furler is not that easy, particularly when underway. So I am thinking about installing a removable secondary forestay. I found some discussion about this subject on this site.

It seems to me that something like this Pad Eye, installed a few inches aft of the current forestay tang, could be used as the lower attachment point of the secondary stay. This Johnson Quick Release Lever could be used to provide the proper tension.

If the upper attachment point of the current forestay is moved a few inches further up the mast, the old attachment point could be used to attach the secondary forestay.

When not in use, the secondary forestay could be stored along the mast. Then when needed, the secondary forestay could be simply attached to the pad eye. The next step would be to attach a hank on jib. Changing back to the genny would require simply the removal of the jib and disconnecting the secondary forestay.

This configuration would also provide the possibility to fly a storm jib and a second foresail in a wing-to-wing configuration.

Am I dreaming? I would appreciate your comments.



Also,

Happy New Year to all of you. I am getting excited about sailing in a short 4 months from now

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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro » Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:22 pm

I'd compare the cost and hassel of that system to having a loft add a luff pad to the genoa. With a luff pad you can reef in the genoa, move the sheets to the cabin top tracks and probably gain most of the extra performance that using the jib gives you. The bulk of the pad takes out the belly in the partially furled genoa giving you a shape close to what the jib gives you.

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Harry van der Meer
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Post by Harry van der Meer » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:16 am

I did some further investigating:

Spoke with a Doyle Sail loft here in MA. They told me that a separate stay with a hank-on jib is the better way to go. A luff tape would only marginally improve sail shape of the partially furled genny. Furthermore, you still have the issue of the partially furled jenny being too high on the rig, creating a higher heeling moment. Doyle also told me that the 150 genny is way too large for the 26X. They would recommend a 135 maximum.

The folks at Sailforce told me that the problem with the jib on a secondary stay is the poor airflow caused by the rolled furler in front of it. This would greatly impact the performance of the jib. They would also recommend against putting a luff tape on an existing genny because of different stretching characteristics of old and new Dacron. They recommend a new sail with a luff pad.

I also talked with Gail at BWY. She suggested to leave things as they are, except to install an intermediate reef point in the main.

Well, here you have it. I guess I am going to see if I can optimize changing sails on the furler. Perhaps a sail feederwould work. Also, I might consider a temporary line tied to the furler halyard lead aft to allow my mate to raise the sail.

I will sleep on this for a bit..

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Newell
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Secondary Forestay

Post by Newell » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:28 pm

Hi,

If you raise the original forestay up the mast, the rake of the mast is more vertical. Have you already changed the angle of your mast?

I wonder why Doyle had their offshore shop build all those 150 Gennys? The X or any other boat is only overpowered when the existing wind reaches the point the captain declares it so.

Newell
96 26X Fast Sunday

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Harry van der Meer
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Post by Harry van der Meer » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:23 pm

I have shortened the forestay by 4 inches and reduced rake to about 2-3 degrees. The boat sails well up to about 15 knots of wind. With the wind beyond that and a fully reefed main, the 150 genny is too big. I found that by using the standard jib, handling and pointing improved significantly.

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Jeff S
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Post by Jeff S » Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:31 pm

From my very few data points I think regardless of what you do with the foresail setup an intermediate reef in the main would be a good addition, and will help reduce heel in the heavier winds. I think reefing is a better first option on my Mac 26X than adjusting foresail.

Keep in mind I only have the jib so I haven't really had to reduce foresail area at all. I first reef through the 2 reefing points, then mainsail down- after that it is time to take down all the sails because it is too windy for me and my Mac. I do plan to get a Genoa very soon and have been looking at maybe a 130-140 Genny with luff tape.

I like the idea of another stay for more foresail options (And a quicker change). Other boats have similar setups- not sure how much of a problem it is for them having the RF sail in front.

Jeff S

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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:23 pm

If you put a permanent second forestay behind the RF, you can't tack the RF sail through the slot in the conventional fashion. The only way to do so is roll it up, then unroll it on the other side of the inner stay.

If you put the second stay in front of the RF, you can't reasonably tack the hank on jib through the slot at all.

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Jeff S
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Post by Jeff S » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:43 pm

Chip Hindes wrote:If you put a permanent second forestay behind the RF, you can't tack the RF sail through the slot in the conventional fashion. The only way to do so is roll it up, then unroll it on the other side of the inner stay.

If you put the second stay in front of the RF, you can't reasonably tack the hank on jib through the slot at all.
Chip, I think he was planning on connecting it to the padeye via a snap shackle or something and keeping the bottom end with the snap shackle secured at the mast until it was time to break out the other sail at which time he would connect the lower end and hank on the sail. I don't think he planned on sailing with the RF while the secondary forestay was attached.

I think it may be easier to change out sails on the RF than the extra stay method- but I have only put the jib on the RF with the RF disconnected, it didn't seem too terribly difficult. Does anyone with experience changing sails on the CDI FF have any tips to make the swap easier. I did cut a messenger line to length that I keep in my box O' Stuff.

Jeff S

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Harry van der Meer
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Post by Harry van der Meer » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:37 pm

I think he was planning on connecting it to the padeye via a snap shackle or something and keeping the bottom end with the snap shackle secured at the mast until it was time to break out the other sail at which time he would connect the lower end and hank on the sail.
Exactly. Rather than using a snap shackle, I found these cool turnbuckles (Cat 01-114-C) that I think will work well to tension the secondary forestay.

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