Source for parts for steering extension?

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Jwnj
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Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

Hi guys im in a bit of a timing issue on the 26x, trying to get the boat out on the water and turns out my boat shop is clueless how to do this so have to do myself. Basically put a 90 yamaha on the boat on an adjustable height heavy duty plate and now the outboard setback is around 4 or 5 inches. Someone told me i need to extend the steering arm and get ball joint(s?) also to make it work. Does anyone have a source including part numbers, hopefully bolt on with no fabrication so i could do myself? This place is horrible with waiting months in line for repairs. Thanks in advance
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Tomfoolery
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Tomfoolery »

I don't know what the steering arm looks like, but look into the steering quick-disconnect kit from BWY. It's all DIY, and works very well. Infinitely adjustable, as the attachment point simply clamps onto the cross bar. It includes the ball rod ends, one of which has a retractable keeper so you can disconnect the engine from the rudder steering and lock it into a straight ahead position - makes for a lighter wheel when sailing, and you can still run the engine and steer with the rudders when that's all you need, but it's easy to pop the engine rod back onto the cross bar so it steers with the rudders again (for high-speed work and great for docking, too).

http://shop.bwyachts.com/product-p/5712-1x0.htm

Even if it's not perfect, it will get you on the water fast. I'm not sure you actually need a longer arm on the OB, though, and in fact, it may hurt as the engine won't turn as far as the rudders turn if you extend that arm that much. But you could always have a SS shop fab an extension, and add it (and play with adjustments) later.
Jwnj
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

Thanks will look into it since ive never owned a mac with actual steering (m19 was tiller) im still trying to visualize how power tilt on the outboard can possibly work with a steering linkage especially a modified one, wouldnt want to snap anything. I know some people responded to my other post a while back saying modifications may not be necessary with that offset but the way the shop made it sound is there is no way it will work. I will take pics tomorrow and see
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Jimmyt
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jimmyt »

If you could include a picture of your setup, it would really help. Tomfoolery is definitely the sharp knife in the drawer, and he can do wonders if you give him some info to work with. Although I'm sailing an M, I'm still interested in seeing what you're up against - since your local shop hasn't already worked it out for you. Hard to get good help these days...
Jwnj
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

Shop was closed but got to take pics, attached below along with observations:

Pics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j0Z4ng ... p=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TrTfuu ... p=drivesdk




-outboard steering plate looks much higher than existing steering, maybe 4 inches? Not sure if that requires a ball point or some sort of step down plate. The outboard is pretty low above pavement I dont think it should go any lower (i think i have to revisit researching how much lower it should be with a 5 inch rearward cmc plate offset than stock).

-I read somewhere on forum that someone had to disconnect the steering cable from steering arm and reconnect it to outboard, i hope thats not necessary. Im not even sure what ramifications of that are for outboard and rudders

- Never having an actual steering system (had mac 19 with tiller and no original engine on the 26x) im having trouble understanding how the stock steering would have worked when raising outboard with power tilt, whether it had to be manually disconnected every time outboard raised (seems unrealistic, maybe for sailing only).
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Jimmyt
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jimmyt »

The steering linkage on the M consists of two metal strap Ells bolted loosely in the center to make a swivel joint. The BWYachts steering disconnect rod has a ball joint on each end. Both of these approaches let the outboard tilt without having to disconnect it. I have access to fabrication, so I would buy the BWY linkage and fab a drop connection for the motor end. A quick kill would be to get stainless all-thread and bend an offset at center, then use the BWY ball ends for connection. Either way, you need to run the tilt through its range, and at each station, check the steering range, to fully evaluate any interference issues. See the BWYACHTS web catalog under steering for the parts that are easily available from them. Also, you might call them to see if they've got a ready made solution.

Image

If you wind up using all-thread, you'll want to wrap it to keep it from chafing your wires, cables, and fuel line. Otherwise, your project will spawn several new projects.
Last edited by Jimmyt on Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tomfoolery
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Tomfoolery »

Jwnj wrote:Shop was closed but got to take pics, attached below along with observations:

Pics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j0Z4ng ... p=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TrTfuu ... p=drivesdk




-outboard steering plate looks much higher than existing steering, maybe 4 inches? Not sure if that requires a ball point or some sort of step down plate. The outboard is pretty low above pavement I dont think it should go any lower (i think i have to revisit researching how much lower it should be with a 5 inch rearward cmc plate offset than stock).

-I read somewhere on forum that someone had to disconnect the steering cable from steering arm and reconnect it to outboard, i hope thats not necessary. Im not even sure what ramifications of that are for outboard and rudders

- Never having an actual steering system (had mac 19 with tiller and no original engine on the 26x) im having trouble understanding how the stock steering would have worked when raising outboard with power tilt, whether it had to be manually disconnected every time outboard raised (seems unrealistic, maybe for sailing only).
You might want to call Blue Water Yachts http://shop.bwyachts.com/ and talk to them about the steering. It looks like you have the old style 'boomerang' cross bar, though I believe the quick disconnect system works with that too, as long as the tube is 1-1/4" diameter (early ones were 1" dia). Those folks really know their stuff when it comes to these boats.

As to the height of the steering arm on the OB, you may have to drop it, but I'm not at all convinced of that. My OB tilts full up with the steering attached, just so you know. I don't have to touch the steering system if I don't want to be bothered, with both rudders and OB attached (the OEM system), but I can disconnect and lock the OB in the straight-ahead position if I want, and still tilt it full up or leave it full down and run it when I get stuck in irons.
Jwnj
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XuVmpM ... p=drivesdk

Here is a better pic of the connection, if im not mistaken all i would need is some sort of riser on the rod arm or drop down bracket on outboars of 4-5 inches. Whatever would be least flexible but allow for outboard to tilt up and down freely. Not sure if the clamp on kit would improve things in this situation or be worse duw to the fact that its clamp on and may create flexibility or loosening. The L bar is 1.25" thick.


As it is it definitely wont reach unless there were ball joints but 4 inches still seems much and the push bar would be diagonal not flat i have no idea how that would affect steering seems like it should be horizontal and fixed in a plane to steer quickly like the original. Having 2 ball joints seems like a good idea for tilting but not sure about steering. I also found out that with the long shaft outboard mounted on the cmc plate they said the cavitation plate should be as close to bottom of hull as possible so now the adjustable plate is adjusted to highest position and the prop is still close to ground hence the 5 inch rise of outboard/steering mount. Cant change the outboard have to keep long shaft.
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Jimmyt
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jimmyt »

I would get two ball joints from BWYACHTS and a piece of rod. I would bend an angle in each end near the joints to achieve the offset. The threaded ball joints will allow you to align the motor with the rudders. The two joints should give you enough range of motion to allow tilting. Every automotive steering system (modern), has two ball joints at the connection to the wheel steering arm, so there is no problem to using two joints at each end of a rigid link (you pretty much have to).

You could actually make it with what you have, using connections similar to the M setup. A sloppy bolt at each end with an L joint to allow rotation.

Look at the stock M setup in my pic above. That is absolutely as Rube Goldberg as you.can get, but works fine. You're not building an Indy car setup, and might be overthinking it.

If you have to go sailing today, you could probably get zinc or cad joints from a mower parts house or tractor supply. You could get all thread from your local hardware store and cobble it together in a few hours including travel time.

If your shop couldn't hook this up for you, you need to find a new shop.

If you don't have a torch and a bench vise, you could probably go to a machine shop or welding shop for any fabrication or bending needs.

I would still try BWYachts to see if they could give you a ready made solution, or can custom build one for you.

You need to add your location to your info. Several guys on this board could fix you up. If you were in Mobile I'd be glad to help you take care of it.
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Tomfoolery
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Tomfoolery »

Jwnj wrote:Here is a better pic of the connection, if im not mistaken all i would need is some sort of riser on the rod arm or drop down bracket on outboars of 4-5 inches. Whatever would be least flexible but allow for outboard to tilt up and down freely. You don't have to have the two ends of the rod in the same plane. There's nothing wrong with doing what Jimmyt suggested above - put a bend in each end so the ball joint doesn't go out of its angular range of motion. You should be able to clock the two ball joint sockets such to absorb the 45 degrees or so of engine tilt. Clock them so they're almost gone solid with the engine down, and there should be plenty of 'tilting' range to rotate the engine up full. Check it with the connections loose, then lock them down with jam nuts when satisfied. Not sure if the clamp on kit would improve things in this situation or be worse duw to the fact that its clamp on and may create flexibility or loosening. The L bar is 1.25" thick. It's very robust. No worries about it getting sloppy. Lots of folks here use them.

As it is it definitely wont reach unless there were ball joints but 4 inches still seems much and the push bar would be diagonal not flat i have no idea how that would affect steering seems like it should be horizontal and fixed in a plane to steer quickly like the original. See comments above. The force in the rod to move the OB will be a little higher, but it's not much force to start with. The friction control on the OB steering should be fully loosened, by the way - you don't need friction in the steering like you would with a tiller handle. Having 2 ball joints seems like a good idea for tilting but not sure about steering. I also found out that with the long shaft outboard mounted on the cmc plate they said the cavitation plate should be as close to bottom of hull as possible so now the adjustable plate is adjusted to highest position and the prop is still close to ground hence the 5 inch rise of outboard/steering mount. Cant change the outboard have to keep long shaft.
Jwnj
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

Thanks guys i think i have enough info to fab something myself. Its difficult to visualize it when your boat is stuck in the shop and theyre clueless (i know need new shop). I have measurements so ill make something by the time i get boat back.
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Jimmyt
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jimmyt »

Good luck. Let us know how you work it out.
Jwnj
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

Anyone know diameter and thread of balljoint bolts? I think bw closed for holiday
Jwnj
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Jwnj »

Got the boat back and playing around with the steering before ball joints come, had a 4 inch metal bracket with holes attached vertically on outboard and the motor turned fine one way but barely the other even though it was centered. Wondering if my outboard setback is the reason. The rudder brackets have 3 adjustment holes where the L shape steering arm connects, would using the hole farthest aft help since that would move the whole arm towards rear?
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Seapup
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Re: Source for parts for steering extension?

Post by Seapup »

had a 4 inch metal bracket with holes attached vertically on outboard and the motor turned fine one way but barely the other even though it was centered. Wondering if my outboard setback is the reason.
I had a setback jackplate on my :macx: and went through what you are experiencing.

Sounds like you are sorting it out.

My findings, the raise spacer needs to be on the steering arm where it connects to the rudder crossbar, if a spacer is put on the motor it will bind when using the motor power tilt. I used a piece of aluminum square tubing to extend the connector length and raise. Ideally you want the connector bar to be level to avoid binding when using the power tilt.

Use the hole furthest in on the motor for the shortest lever and most turning radius possible.

The closer you can get the connector bar to parallel to the transom the more turning radius you will have. If its angled back 45 degrees to reach the motor your turning radius will be cut almost in half.
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