Forestay on the las 3 strands!

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.

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kurz
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Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by kurz » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 am

Hello

By trailering home I found this:
image: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hP3ZF ... e-Ie9V1YE-

Bad: I trailer 2 times a year and did not see it early enough, even if you have all time an eye to the forestay. Maybe I did not watch good enough becouse the break was directely in the crimp.

The good: 3 Strands are strong enough for sailing with heeling of 40degree :evil:

TOGGLE Question:
As you can see there is much chafing of the plates from the shrouds.
image: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19NQ9A ... NFJyZ6KYvM
The CDI manual says you need to use a toggle. Why RogerMacGregor do not use it? Maybe it would reduse the bending stress.
So when I renew it I could improve with a toggle if possible. And maybe a heavier forestay in 4mm, who knows pros/cons?

As a temporary repair did this to just raise the mast, including a safety line:
image:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V8eGz ... q4gnGrPg52

Does anybody know the exactely dimensions of the turnbuckle in the CDI drum? And what kind of thread (metric/US)? I live in EU and its not worth to ship from BWY.

And becouse of the repaire I cannot raise up the CDI drum anymore (have to cut the forestay first at the top)

Thanks all - and watch your forestays :D

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Jimmyt
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by Jimmyt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:05 am

Kurtz,
Glad you found it before it fell.

I would measure the overall length, and build a new one to match the overall length out of your local parts. You will need to take it apart first and verify that your locally sourced parts will fit in the available space. Lay them out side by side and have fun!

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by Tomfoolery » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:51 am

kurz wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 am
And maybe a heavier forestay in 4mm, who knows pros/cons?
I don't know about the :macm: , but BWY has been selling an 'upgraded' forestay for the :macx: . The original was 1/8" [3.18mm] and the upsized forestay is the same as the shrouds at 5/32" [3.97mm]. All are 1x19 class wire rope, as is typical of standing rigging.

You were down to 3 of 19 strands, which is just under 16% of the rope area. That's cutting it pretty fine. Glad nothing bad happened. :)

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kurz
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by kurz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:36 am

do you think the 4mm heavier stay would mach with the stock turnbuckle?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:32 am

Mine has a threaded stud roller-swaged onto the end of the rope, so you'd have to match the turnbuckle screw diameter and thread. That's the only termination that can be used at the bottom, as it has to slide through the foil, from top to bottom, to install. So yes, I don't see any reason it won't fit as long as it's a matching thread.

Just a guess, but I'd guess the stud is right-handed and the other stud, with the clevis to the forestay chain plate, is the left handed part, but I don't know that for sure. Suggest you check that before ordering a forestay, just to be sure, so you don't end up having to replace the other stud, too.

I would strongly suggest you have that stud professionally installed. It may be possible to do it with crimping tools, but roller swaging is the way to go, and it's not a connection I'd care to try untested or unapproved methods on.

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jimmy alonso
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by jimmy alonso » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:45 pm

Really lucky it didn't break.
I've seen my forestay with a strand or two broken.
Installed the larger forestay from BWY this year.
l try to replace all standing rigging every 4 or 5 years now.

Had a lower shroud break once while motoring. Not fun :cry:

Put a toggle at the top too.

I also use a line tied from the top of the mast to the front railing as a backup just in case something breaks.

Image

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kurz
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by kurz » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:16 pm

Thanks Jummy for your photo with the toggle.

So fare I sitll have concerns to change to a toggle.

When I look for a toggle they are long 45mm to be big enough for the 10mm shakle from the shrouds.

The problem I see is that the free cable form the end of the crimps to the furler it becomes to short.
The reason is you need to pull up the furler to get the drum free to mount the turnbuckle that sits inside the furler drum.

For better understanding see the pic please.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1i-bCN ... BYz62Fw9VK

So the same effect like a toggle a normal small shakle can do also? The shakle max half the lenght from a toggle!!!

What you mean?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:11 pm

Why is your forestay spliced? Unless that's just a temporary repair? Looks like someone cut the wire too short and extended it. If you paid money for that, I'd take it back and tell them to do it right.

As to the toggle, your forestay already has a toggle - it's what the thimble is pinned to. The :macx: does not, at least not from the factory, though it probably should.

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kurz
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by kurz » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:37 am

The crimped forestay is a temporary repair. Becouse of this I think about including a Toggle. Tomfoolery I don't see My Toggle. What do you mean?
I worry that a Toggle that is longer than 40mm will make it hard to mount the turnbuckle inside the drum down of the CDI furler.

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by Tomfoolery » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:53 am

Oh, my bad! I was looking at jimmy alonso’s photo. He’s got the proper toggle, which also moves the thimble far enough away from the tangs that the wire can’t get damaged.

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prishi
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by prishi » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:14 am

Be very careful of that "temporary repair". Don't make it permanent. Putting any sort of stress on that would be extremely risky as the aluminum collar can slip easily due to the shear stresses at the connection point of the 2 steel wire-ropes.

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kurz
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by kurz » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:27 am

In fact all new may be best in any case. But: This crimp connections are said to be very strong. Ones I tried a loop to crack with a jack. The crimps hold but the SS cable broke. And there is no alluminium in the crimps. Its copper...

But you are right of course. new is better. But still the loop is crimped...

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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by NiceAft » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:26 pm

I just received from BWY a new headstay for the CDI furler on my 2005 :macm:. I purchased the heavier duty wire. Tomorrow I find out if my old turnbuckle works on the new headstay.

Ray

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kurz
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by kurz » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:05 am

Ok, just installed the new heavier forestay from BWY for my :macm:

Seems to be a good idea to contraol. At the bootem inside the drum there were 2 strans broken.

How do I find the exact length for the forestay? Inside the drum I can control the length from the forestay. I think it will have an influence of the mast angle.

Then in the second step I can tighten with the shrouds.

Any idea how I adjust the forestay?


Thanks - kurz

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Jimmyt
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Re: Forestay on the las 3 strands!

Post by Jimmyt » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:54 am

Manual shows this:
Image
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