Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

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dedetal
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Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by dedetal » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:51 pm

I read than some people said that the Mac version C,D or S are better sailer than the version M or X. I can see the hull of the version C,D or S is different.
My question is: can you tell me if some people have seen the difference on the water when sailing? which is faster? More confortable when sailing?

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Ixneigh
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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Ixneigh » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:04 pm

The x and m are power sail hybrids. They will not sail as well as the earlier versions that were only intended to be used with low hp motors. The high sides catch the wind and help blow the powersailors sideways. If you ONLY want a sailboat stick with the earlier boats.
That said Ive sailed all my life and I was pleasantly surprised at the m's performance in light to moderate winds and calm waters. (my prefered sailing) In rougher conditions the earlier versions will sail better because they have a lot less windage.

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by vizwhiz » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:19 pm

You'll find a lot of discussion about this in these forums...

Essentially, the "C" stands for "Classic" and comes in two forms - the D and S. Both are 26-foot boats.

The D is the earlier of the two, and stands for "Daggerboard" referring to the design of the retractable centerboard/keel.
The S is the later of the two, and stands for "Swing-keel", in this case a hinged, pivoting centerboard/keel.
Both of these are true displacement-hull sailboats, but water-ballasted and with retractable keel, all for friendly trailering.

There was a short stint where a 19' powersailer was introduced, then came the X, which was the first of MacGregor's 26' powersailors based on a similar cockpit layout as the classic. X is water-ballasted, swing-keel, semi-planing hull shape and big motor capable. M is the next generation after the X, 26' long, water-ballasted, daggerboard, semi-planing hull shape, and big motor capable.

Everyone seems to agree that the 26C's (D & S) sail better than the X & M as far as pure sailing qualities go, and from what I understand they are really good sailboats overall in the sailboat category too...still not open-water boats, perhaps, but both forgiving and fast.

Their limitations (low headroom, strictly sailing capable) are what cause people to look at the X & M for other reasons - like go-go power, stand-up headroom, pretty blue color, etc.

dedetal
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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by dedetal » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:10 pm

Thank you for your response. I'am looking for an old version in the swing keel version.

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by dlandersson » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:48 pm

Something else, being older, the 26 D's and S's can be remarkably reasonable in price. Just the thing for learning how to sail. :)
vizwhiz wrote:You'll find a lot of discussion about this in these forums...

Essentially, the "C" stands for "Classic" and comes in two forms - the D and S. Both are 26-foot boats.

The D is the earlier of the two, and stands for "Daggerboard" referring to the design of the retractable centerboard/keel.
The S is the later of the two, and stands for "Swing-keel", in this case a hinged, pivoting centerboard/keel.
Both of these are true displacement-hull sailboats, but water-ballasted and with retractable keel, all for friendly trailering.

There was a short stint where a 19' powersailer was introduced, then came the X, which was the first of MacGregor's 26' powersailors based on a similar cockpit layout as the classic. X is water-ballasted, swing-keel, semi-planing hull shape and big motor capable. M is the next generation after the X, 26' long, water-ballasted, daggerboard, semi-planing hull shape, and big motor capable.

Everyone seems to agree that the 26C's (D & S) sail better than the X & M as far as pure sailing qualities go, and from what I understand they are really good sailboats overall in the sailboat category too...still not open-water boats, perhaps, but both forgiving and fast.

Their limitations (low headroom, strictly sailing capable) are what cause people to look at the X & M for other reasons - like go-go power, stand-up headroom, pretty blue color, etc.

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by John McDonough » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:37 pm

I owned a 1988 26D for 11 years. Its was a fabulous Sailboat, I could out Sail all the other similar traierable and fixed keel cruisers in its class. I had upgraded the Sails and equipment and it was only a fraction faster than stock. It could point and tack into the wind much better..

With the cruising spinnaker, I surfed across Lake Erie often.

The 26D was easier to trailor, but it just doesnt have the same cabin space as my 26X.
The 26D required about 6 hours to motor across Lake Erie in calm water.
The 26X can motor across Lake Erie in less than 2 hours.

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by bwygirl » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:28 pm

In 1995 when the 26X was first built I was involved in a test race with Roger MacGregor at the helm of the new 26X with my tactician ( from racing our Schock 35 in Seattle ) along with him. I was at the tiller of a 26 classic along with Todd. We came to CA just to do this comparison as we really wanted to see if the new boat, 26X, sailed as well as we hoped. Roger has years of sailing experiance and I had about 10 years of racing experiance at that time. In about 10 knots of steady wind we set off. Upwind it was neck and neck with the classic maybe in the lead by a little at the mark. HOWEVER, once we rounded the mark there was nothing I could do to catch the 26X! We felt that we both sailed as well as possible and felt that the new 26X was a success. Now of course you will always be able to say in differing wind conditions, with people at the helm with differing abilities, etc. there will always be times when one or the other boat will look like the better sailer. The big question is do you like the boat you have and are you having fun with it, nothing else really matters. Unless you are in a sanctioned race and then you need new race sails, clean bottom, and good skills.

The 26X or 26M have more interior room, nice when you are inside. This does give more windage outside than the 26C. The 26C however was tender and would round up quickly if you were on the edge of reefing conditions. As long as you have the correct sails up for the conditons my vote is that the 26X is a better sail boat than the classic, and that the new 26M is better than either. I have a lot of sailing experiance on all three of these boats, hopefully others who send in comments will also have lots of sailing experiance on all three.

Just trying to give you all some fun reading material, really really really all MacGregor boats are GREAT boats! They are all fun to use and that is all that matters.

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Divecoz » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:34 pm

Thank You bwygirl, for your post.. They are each and everyone for its intended purpose and pound for pound dollar for dollar GREAT BOATS!
Roger, Mr. MacGregor has been around as a boat builder for a long long time.. He has supplied a need that No One else has ever managed to do..
Some here habitually nit pick this or that on these boats all too often. But Macgregor has been supplying boat in the numbers desired ( thousandssssss) and at an affordable price for yearssssssss. All the while managing a profit margin that allows the next generation of sailors to buy a ....New Macgregor...
In spite of the naysayers and nit pickers there are a lot of Venture's, Classic's and Xs and Ms plying the waters of the world to this day and hopefully for many years to come..
We have had naysayers from outside the group of owners as well.. Most if not all , have been put to rest and or put in there place, by Rogers Video of the M off the coast of California and NO Less So .....by our own..... Mad Men of Ontario..
My hat is off to each and everyone of you who contribute to this board with HONEST Evaluations, effecting the reputation of these fine boats..

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Highlander » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:58 pm

bwygirl wrote:In 1995 when the 26X was first built I was involved in a test race with Roger MacGregor at the helm of the new 26X with my tactician ( from racing our Schock 35 in Seattle ) along with him. I was at the tiller of a 26 classic along with Todd. We came to CA just to do this comparison as we really wanted to see if the new boat, 26X, sailed as well as we hoped. Roger has years of sailing experiance and I had about 10 years of racing experiance at that time. In about 10 knots of steady wind we set off. Upwind it was neck and neck with the classic maybe in the lead by a little at the mark. HOWEVER, once we rounded the mark there was nothing I could do to catch the 26X! We felt that we both sailed as well as possible and felt that the new 26X was a success. Now of course you will always be able to say in differing wind conditions, with people at the helm with differing abilities, etc. there will always be times when one or the other boat will look like the better sailer. The big question is do you like the boat you have and are you having fun with it, nothing else really matters. Unless you are in a sanctioned race and then you need new race sails, clean bottom, and good skills.

The 26X or 26M have more interior room, nice when you are inside. This does give more windage outside than the 26C. The 26C however was tender and would round up quickly if you were on the edge of reefing conditions. As long as you have the correct sails up for the conditons my vote is that the 26X is a better sail boat than the classic, and that the new 26M is better than either. I have a lot of sailing experiance on all three of these boats, hopefully others who send in comments will also have lots of sailing experiance on all three.

Just trying to give you all some fun reading material, really really really all MacGregor boats are GREAT boats! They are all fun to use and that is all that matters.
Ah well spoken what can I say 8)
Image

J

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Highlander » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:08 pm

Divecoz wrote:Thank You bwygirl, for your post.. They are each and everyone for its intended purpose and pound for pound dollar for dollar GREAT BOATS!
Roger, Mr. MacGregor has been around as a boat builder for a long long time.. He has supplied a need that No One else has ever managed to do..
Some here habitually nit pick this or that on these boats all too often. But Macgregor has been supplying boat in the numbers desired ( thousandssssss) and at an affordable price for yearssssssss. All the while managing a profit margin that allows the next generation of sailors to buy a ....New Macgregor...
In spite of the naysayers and nit pickers there are a lot of Venture's, Classic's and Xs and Ms plying the waters of the world to this day and hopefully for many years to come..
We have had naysayers from outside the group of owners as well.. Most if not all , have been put to rest and or put in there place, by Rogers Video of the M off the coast of California and NO Less So .....by our own..... Mad Men of Ontario..
My hat is off to each and everyone of you who contribute to this board with HONEST Evaluations, effecting the reputation of these fine boats..
Rich.
Well said :)

http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0_2494.mp4

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J 8)

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Québec 1
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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Québec 1 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:18 pm

come on ...the answer to the question is.....YES
Q1

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Sumner » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:17 pm

Well for starters I think Ruth and I would be hard pressed to beat anyone on here regardless of the boat they are in and it just doesn't matter to us. Getting from point A to B is all we care about.

Now saying that here are some PHRF numbers I found from:

UNITED STATES PERFORMANCE HANDICAP RACING FLEET

they say "The listing covers reports from affiliated fleets to USPHRF
for the period March 1995 to March 2007."

Boat................Lowest Handicap...........Highest Handicap.........Average Handicap

MACGREGOR 26........ 210......................... 258............................. 222
MACGREGOR 26 DB.... 210......................... 219............................. 213
MACGREGOR 26 X..... 216..........................273..............................228

They list them in that order. I'm guessing the first one is the S, but maybe it is the M. I'm guessing it is the S and for some reason left the M out. Maybe not enough data.

For fun here is the 65 or one of them....

MACGREGOR 65------ -45........................... 15................................ -24

Notice that two of those numbers are negative numbers.

c ya,

Sum

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by vizwhiz » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:30 am

(raises hand) Total noob - please explain what the handicap represents...
Thanks!

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Sumner » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:44 am

vizwhiz wrote:(raises hand) Total noob - please explain what the handicap represents...
Thanks!
Try this....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performanc ... cing_Fleet

...Sum

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Re: Is version C, S or D better sail than ver M or X

Post by Highlander » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:44 am

Québec 1 wrote:come on ...the answer to the question is.....YES
Q1
Yeh,
Do not blame the boat for your inexperience !! :D You know what she can do ! :P :wink:

The fastest boat can be the slowest in the hands of the wrong Skipper ! :o

I'll stick with my non stock :macm: :) 8)

J

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