Roller Furling

J Dower · Post by **J Dower** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:40 pm

Does anyone have much experience using the CDI unit with a Genoa. The Macgregor advertising says it can be used partially rolled up with no loss of sail shape. That would imply that there is foam sewed into the luff of the sail to keep the mid section tight when rolled. I have this unit with the small jib and it does not have anything to help mainatin the shape when partilly rolled.

Anyone know if the Genoa has this or how it works when sailing with it partially rolled?

Sloop John B · Post by **Sloop John B** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:24 pm

I don't think anyone recalls Mac saying a partially furled sail has no loss of sail shape. The stock sails don't come with the foam. Your jib doesn't, neither does the genoa. The furler is just a handy way of getting the sails completely out of the wind. Maybe, in sudden extremis, of getting them partially furled to keep you upright.

The stock furling should not be confused with reefing.

Duane Dunn, Allegro · Post by **Duane Dunn, Allegro** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:53 pm

The CDI unit IS a reefing furler unlike some of the smaller ones meant for only all in or all out. You can sail with the genoa partially rolled, we do it all the time. It works, but I'm sure the sail shape is not optimized as it would be with a luff pad. It all depends how picky you are. By paying attention to how the sail rolls you can get the leading edge fairly clean, but I'm sure it is too full at higher wind speeds.

You could also easily have a loft add a pad if you felt it was necessary. For us the partially rolled genoa works just fine.

mike · Post by **mike** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:53 pm

Sloop John B wrote:I don't think anyone recalls Mac saying a partially furled sail has no loss of sail shape.

Actually, the 26X video has a scene that shows the genoa partially rolled in, and the voice-over says "...and note how the sail keeps its perfect shape" or something like that.

--Mike

Moe · Post by **Moe** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:34 pm

Yeah... perfect shape... like the dinette on an X makes into a "double" bed (54" wide... it's a twin at about 39" wide).

--
Moe

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:50 pm

Mike is right, the video does make the dubious claim just as he stated.

The 150 genny shape suffers quite badly when partially rolled. If I ever took the jib out of the bag I don't think I'd ever try to run with it rolled; I'd drop the main first and run under jib alone. In fact, I do this with the genny as well (unreefed with no main) and I believe the boat is better balanced and easier to handle than with both sails partially reefed. probably not as fast, though.

mike · Post by **mike** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:44 pm

Moe wrote:Yeah... perfect shape... like the dinette on an X makes into a "double" bed (54" wide... it's a twin at about 39" wide).

We should make a list of "MacGregorisms".

--Mike

Miquel · Post by **Miquel** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:20 am

We changed last summer from the jib to the genoa in the CDI, as we were heading to the Mediterranean. And we left the genoa for the rest of the season, back in the North Sea. I still plan to leave the genoa for next season.

I have used the genoa partially rolled; I dont like that much going with the genoa only, without any main. I recall reading that the rig suffers too much this way

. So what I do is to roll some genoa, take the reef (I only have 1 point) in the main, and then roll more genoa if needed. I have been so with 6 7 B (29 35 mph), and it worked quite well.

I agree that the shape is not the best one, and has nothing to do with the jib at the same surface, but still its easier than changing of sail in high winds

.

The only precaution I take, and for me it worked well, is to re-route the sheets of the genoa to the jib things (sorry for the technicality of the word, but I dont recall now the name in English)

in the top of the roof.

Fair winds,

Miquel
Culzean.

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:25 am

IMO, the boat is so overpowered by the main, I have never seen reason to reef the jib. It's needed full-sized to help counter the main, which is the sail that really requires reefing (by slab).

I also have a UK Genoa, and I have reefed it occasionally. It doesn't have luff pad, so the rolling destroys its shape, but it does help reduce heeling in high winds, if only a little.

Even with the Genoa in higher wind speeds, I've never found this boat to have lee helm caused by the foresail overpowering the bow. Heavier winds always cause the aft end to be pushed off rather than the bow. The result, of course, is the bow lunging toward the wind, weather helm.

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:04 am

Miquel ,

I presume that when you say you run the genoa sheets through the jib cars (top of the cabin), you have the genoa rolled up to a fairly small size?

I have thought about doing this too, but I figured that the genoa is so baggy when reefed, the upwind performance would still not be that good....but I suppose it better than sheets around the outside of the shrouds.

Now that we are in "wind season" here in FL, I have switched between jib and genoa a couple times, but I only do it at the dock. If the wind is over 10mph, the boat works better with the jib, especially when beating. Since I don't have a UV cover on my jib, I try not to leave it on for more than a couple weeks at a time though. Now that I use my jib more, I wonder if it wouldn't have been better getting a sock instead of sewn-on cover for my genoa

It's always something.

Miquel · Post by **Miquel** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:19 am

Yes, I do it when the genoa is rolled to what it would be a 100% jib, or less. Still the performance is better with the jib when beating upwind, but it's better with the rolled genoa and the jib cars than when using the genoa cars.

I also do "the opposite" with the jib

. When running, I use the genoa cars for the jib. I have found that it stands in a better shape.

Fair winds,

Miquel
Culzean

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:51 am

Dimitri wrote:Now that I use my jib more, I wonder if it wouldn't have been better getting a sock instead of sewn-on cover for my genoa It's always something.

Exactly the justification I used for getting the sock (usable for both) rather than the sewn on UV (cost more, and 2X for both sails). Plus, the sewn- on is known to damage the shape of the sail.

Unfortunately, as I've mentioned in the past the jib has never been out of the bag. So as I've never actually used the sock on the jib, that justification turns out to have been bogus. The sail shape remains as designed, but who knows how much that's worth? Don't notice that it's made the boat into a speed demon, though I suppose we need all the help we can get as far as sail shape.

But the sewn on sure would would have been less trouble. As you say, if it's not one thing, it's another. Even if I had it to do over again, I'm still not sure what's best.

DeMaster · Post by **DeMaster** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:30 pm

Add the UV strip is my advice. Three years on my jib kept in a sock and
still had the leach fail. Doyle loft repaired and added UV strip for $60.
I think the sail holds a better shape with the three inch trailing edge with
leach line.

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:41 pm

Why do you suppose that the leach would fail so fast if you had it covered up? Seems like it should be just as protected with a sock than with the U/V strip...although maybe the strip adds some additional structural value too.

I went with the strip on my genoa and I think the going price was more like $160-175. Sounds like you got a good price. I prefer not having to hassle with a sock myself but like Chip was saying, I can't see myself spending another $160+ to put a strip on my second sail (jib). It's one thing if you have a nice $1000+ sail, but these stock Mac sails are pretty inexpensive so it kind of defeats the purpose. Wasn't Bill selling jibs for like $190 or something...wow, that would mean that the cost of the U/V cover is almost as much as the sail itself.

DeMaster · Post by **DeMaster** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:43 pm

The sail maker said the sock is not on during sailing, lunch ect.
Sun and luffing combination flex the sail in the vurnerable leach area.