Terrorized by Gusts!

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mika
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Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by mika »

Beautiful blue-sky day yesterday on Michigan’s Lake Charlevoix. NOAA predicted 10-15 mph winds with gusts to 30 mph. Hoisted main and jib and had some excellent sailing. Kind of day you dream of! . . . until the gusts showed up and made it a nightmare. They were continual and each one instantly threw me on my side to about 45-55 degrees. Had to quickly turn into the wind and spill the wind from the main as fast and as best as I could to keep from taking water. Nevertheless, she’d still remain heeling to extreme until I managed to get fully into irons, which hammered my sails back and forth. Turbulent gusts were so frequent and violent there was no opportunity to reef. They sure seemed stronger than 30 mph. Two-hour ordeal left my admiral really shaken and she had every right to be so. . . . Guess the lesson is that I need to fully reef when initially hoisting the main when “gusts” are forecasted. Anyone else have much experience with such gusts? What do you guys think?
THE CUSCUS
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by THE CUSCUS »

You can ease the main sheet out when hit by gust or set the traveller down (if you have one) to ruduce the heel factor. If you couldn't reef, you should have tried to reduce sail by rolling up the jib (if on a furler) or dropping it altogether (if hanked on). Also, you can fire up the engine and keep her into the wind while reefing. The biggest thing is to not scare the admiral! They get reluctant to go back out. I know.....been there!
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ROAD Soldier
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by ROAD Soldier »

mika wrote:Beautiful blue-sky day yesterday on Michigan’s Lake Charlevoix. NOAA predicted 10-15 mph winds with gusts to 30 mph. Hoisted main and jib and had some excellent sailing. Kind of day you dream of! . . . until the gusts showed up and made it a nightmare. They were continual and each one instantly threw me on my side to about 45-55 degrees. Had to quickly turn into the wind and spill the wind from the main as fast and as best as I could to keep from taking water. Nevertheless, she’d still remain heeling to extreme until I managed to get fully into irons, which hammered my sails back and forth. Turbulent gusts were so frequent and violent there was no opportunity to reef. They sure seemed stronger than 30 mph. Two-hour ordeal left my admiral really shaken and she had every right to be so. . . . Guess the lesson is that I need to fully reef when initially hoisting the main when “gusts” are forecasted. Anyone else have much experience with such gusts? What do you guys think?
Step one if you don't have a topping lift make one or buy one and install it.
Step two put down motor and motor into the irons and use topping lift to help steady the boom.
Step three reef your sail.
Step four tell your Admiral to fetch you a beer as you keep your cool and continue sailing :) .
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Doug W
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by Doug W »

At times, it has seemed to me that mine is over-powered. Last season, I didn't go out if winds were above 20. I'm more confident this year but will tend to reduce sail since it feels like the boat moves most efficiently when leaning around 15 to 20 degrees. (but that may just be my comfort zone...) :)

I was solo sailing this past weekend and the winds were *supposed* to be 11 gusting to 15. After my guest passengers left, I was sailing under my 150 Genoa only when the winds picked up dramatically. :o

Close hulled up the main channel with the full Genny only -- had me consistently 35+ degrees. As the white caps developed white caps I kept reducing sail every few tacks. After a few miles, the wind 'storm' had gotten to the point that water was blowing off the top of the waves, dripping off the bow pulpit like a shower and I was being hit from bow splashes!!! I was sailing faster than Galactica had ever sailed before with about 1/3 to 1/2 of the Genoa only and about 15 degree lean!!!! 8) 8) 8)

Had my wife been along, I could have had her video it! When winds are up, I sail with one hand on the mainsheet and one on the helm. I had to clamp the bitter end of the genoa sheet against the hull with my foot since the sheet would occasionally pop loose flogging the genny out. Seasoned salts told me that they believed I should have switched back from the swivel cleats to the winches in the heavy air.

I knew the winds were far higher than the predicted 15mph gusts, there were 5 sailboats out and the big boys with wind meters said that it was sustained 25 knots gusting to 30 knot. A 37'Tartan under full sail actually rounded up once--her skipper, a very seasoned old salt, said that it was the first time his boat had ever rounded up on him in the dozen years he's had her. I only know that I'm far more confident in my Mac's abilities now after last weekend! My blog and last video show the winds after things had calmed down enough that I could free up a hand for my iphone camera. What an AWESOME sail!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2InzoAgIyr8
http://starsloop.blogspot.com/2011/08/g ... d-mtl.html

...Doug :macm:
http://starsloop.blogspot.com
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ROAD Soldier
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by ROAD Soldier »

Totally awesome Doug. I have a question on the pic below that looks like you are on a beat. Are you on a beat and how fast were you going?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RA-ITmAzEJY/T ... lming1.jpg
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bscott
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by bscott »

Those conditions are fairly frequent where I sail. The best solution to your situation would have been to choose a 105 and reef the main before you began the sail. Winds above 15 knts with gusts to 25 is not genny territory.

From the pic I saw, your reefed 150 had alot of forestay sag and your sheet should have intersected your jib close to mid-point by moving the jib block forward. The shape of the 150 was too baggy for wind conditions. Those conditions require very flat jib with a fair amount of head twist to keep the boat upright. How much forestay tension do you have?

Reefing any jib requires you to move the jib blocks/cars and winch the sheets hard to maximize close hauled performance. In your case, the reefed jib sheets should have been moved to the cabin top to narrow the slot which is a hard thing to do in high winds. That is one of the reason a 105 is a better choice. If I have a competent crew aboard, I have a crew member move the jib cars to the new correct location after I reef my jib. I have them adjust the windward car first, then tack, and move the new windward car. This way I do not have to climb the cabin to deal with flogging sheets.

Other wise, it looked like an adventuresome sailing day and nothing broke and you came back safe and are still married :D .

Bob
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Phil M
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by Phil M »

Gusts are more common in the interior of a continent, in general, so you learn to prepare for them. Usually, when the winds are up, reefing before you leave anchor or the dock is a good rule of thumb. It is much easier to pull the reef out in light airs because you do not need it, than to hove to and reef in heavy seas. :o

Acting as non-chalant as possible helps the Admiral keep calm too. 8)

Phil M :macm:
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dennisneal
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by dennisneal »

I've found that it is easier to let out additional sail, if winds are lighter than predicted, than to take them in when conditions are a bit rough. So, I think the time to consider how much sail is appropriate, (if possible), is at the dock.

Of course, if heeling becomes a problem during gusty winds, I would recommend to let out the mainsheet in order to immediately depower the boat.
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mastreb
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by mastreb »

Doug W wrote:I'm more confident this year but will tend to reduce sail since it feels like the boat moves most efficiently when leaning around 15 to 20 degrees.
The :macm: hull has it's lowest drag at a heel angle of 15..20 degrees.
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Doug W
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by Doug W »

ROAD Soldier wrote: by ROAD Soldier » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:49 am
Totally awesome Doug. I have a question on the pic below that looks like you are on a beat. Are you on a beat and how fast were you going?
I was close hulled and beating as close as I could get her. My only speed indicator is an app on my phone. Was too busy during the heavy winds. By the time wind slackened, I snapped pictures and videos but was too into the experience to think about the app. I know that my boat had never sailed so fast and I was churning up white water behind! At one point, I was sailing along pretty fast and a pontoon boat with an outboard passed slow enough that we were talking as he passed. On the youtube video, you can see him pulling away on the starboard side.
bscott wrote: by bscott » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:04 pm
You're right! My swivel cars were all the way back on the genoa tracks. I will mount my other cars on the jib tracks for the next time I get to play in higher winds! Lots of good advice in your message! I didn't even raise the mainsail which was reefed since the furled genoa is easier for me when sailing alone. I probably needed to be on the winches so that I could pull the sheets tighter.

I don't know what the tension is on my forestay other than it's set to where it was when I bought her and that it generally takes two people rig the forestay: one to insert the pin and me to pull it tight enough to align the holes.

I'm definitely learning, the boat heeled less under more sail whenever I'd fall off some but truth be told, it was a wildly exhilirating sail and I was having too much fun! :P

...Doug :macm:
http://starsloop.blogspot.com
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seacatcapt
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by seacatcapt »

your sheet should have intersected your jib close to mid-point by moving the jib block forward. The shape of the 150 was too baggy for wind conditions. Those conditions require very flat jib with a fair amount of head twist to keep the boat upright.
Just wondering about the direction that the cars should go in heavy wind. The Annapolis book says "When the lead is too far forward, the sail is pulled back too little and down too much, and the sail is too full... When the lead is too far aft, the sail is pulled back too far and down too little. The sail is overly flat and twisted."
Seems like in heavy air, one would want the sheet car back to flatten the sail and have more twist at the top. I'm I misinterpreting the proper direction to move the cars? :|
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nedmiller
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by nedmiller »

We leave the main on the boom and trailer the Mac on every trip. We have found that the best technique for us is to put in the 2nd reef when we are taking down the sails at the end of the trip. That way, when we launch (often no dock) and raise the main, it is already reefed. We started doing this after a couple of times of launching when wind was high and then trying to reef the main. It is easy to take out reefs if they are not needed.
SILK :macx:
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ROAD Soldier
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by ROAD Soldier »

bscott wrote:Those conditions are fairly frequent where I sail. The best solution to your situation would have been to choose a 105 and reef the main before you began the sail. Winds above 15 knts with gusts to 25 is not genny territory.

From the pic I saw, your reefed 150 had alot of forestay sag and your sheet should have intersected your jib close to mid-point by moving the jib block forward. The shape of the 150 was too baggy for wind conditions. Those conditions require very flat jib with a fair amount of head twist to keep the boat upright. How much forestay tension do you have?

Reefing any jib requires you to move the jib blocks/cars and winch the sheets hard to maximize close hauled performance. In your case, the reefed jib sheets should have been moved to the cabin top to narrow the slot which is a hard thing to do in high winds. That is one of the reason a 105 is a better choice. If I have a competent crew aboard, I have a crew member move the jib cars to the new correct location after I reef my jib. I have them adjust the windward car first, then tack, and move the new windward car. This way I do not have to climb the cabin to deal with flogging sheets.

Other wise, it looked like an adventuresome sailing day and nothing broke and you came back safe and are still married :D .

Bob
Note to self, do not post any of my pics showing me have a fun time sailing at high speeds on a beat using my genny. Or maybe I will get a pass because I use a storm jib at the same time.
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bscott
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by bscott »

Sorry ROADSoldier, I though that was a link to Mika's inquiry and call or advice--my apologies to you if I offended you.

There are many Mac sailor's that could benefit from learning from the experiences of others on this 4M-good or bad.

I have been sailing all kinds of "yachts" for more than 40 years and understand proper rig tuning. Unfortunately many new owners are told (see Roger's video) they can learn to sail in two days--the truth is we all are learning new things each time we hoist a sail. The Mac X/M is not an easy boat to learn on and the 150 is a much more difficult sail to trim once you start reefing.

As far as the use of a 150 on a predicted high wind day with gusts to 30, the safe thing to do is have your rig properly tuned before you weigh anchor--that means proper shroud tension, 150 reefed to 60-70% out with the sheets inboard of the shrouds pointing to the mid point of the reefed luff. Any time you change your jib reef, you should change your sheet car position-it may only be a few inches from centerline. If you have tell tails on a 150, all three should be streaming back-but when reefed most tell tails are hidden inside the reef so it is impossible to accurately read the wind, thus the rule of thumb is to have your sheet angle bisect the luff mid way as a good starting point. From the mid-point, move the car forward 1-3" in light air to power up the jib or move it back to flatten the jib in high winds and better pointing. High winds require a very hard jib sheet only possible with a strong winch--once you fall off to a reach, sheeting is eased and the jib cars moved forward.

The most versatile 150 will have luff pad sewn into the luff to eliminate the belly that occurs when you reef a big head sail. The luff pad will widen the reefing range of the sail and lower the COE as the reefed sail will not travel up the forestay as far with the pad.

My $.02

Bob

The Annapolis Sailing Book is correct when they say "too far". Trimming is a baby step adventure :evil:
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NiceAft
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Re: Terrorized by Gusts!

Post by NiceAft »

Bob,

I enjoyed the last post, but I can't agree about the :macm: or :macx: being a boat which is hard to learn to sail.

I sailed a Phantom ( think Sunfish ), for twenty five years, and then bought the Mac. I went from 14' to 26' overnight. I developed quick reflexes on the Phantom, but I learned to sail on the Mac.!

I must add that I am very lucky in that the Admiral enjoys sailing at over 30 degrees :) We have done over 45 and she has not complained 8) You get the best speed at 10 to 20 degree heel, but the most thrills are at 35+. :evil: Ya ain't going fast, but you sure do get people's attention. Yehaa :!: :wink:

Ray
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