Water Ballast Question...

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richandlori
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Water Ballast Question...

Post by richandlori » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:12 pm

I found this question posted in the mods section and realized that it was better suited for the discussion board, so I pasted it here. The question was posted by Remi Tournus, and he may appreciate your response here.


Can you send me a documentation about the Mac

Gregor 26X.

I search a map which explains where is the water

ballast, to change the system of valves.

Now I have two valves and I want only one bigger one

the right side of the boat.

Is it possible to empty all the water inside with an only

valve on the right side?

Until this day there is always water in the bottom of the

water ballast.

Thank you to answer me or to tell me who can give me

informations about this.

Do you know if the Mac Gregor is imported now in

France or in Europe?


Can you send me a documentation about the Mac

Gregor 26X.

I search a map which explains where is the water

ballast, to change the system of valves.

Now I have two valves and I want only one bigger one

the right side of the boat.

Is it possible to empty all the water inside with an only

valve on the right side?

Until this day there is always water in the bottom of the

water ballast.

Thank you to answer me or to tell me who can give me

informations about this.

Do you know if the Mac Gregor is imported now in

France or in Europe?

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Sloop John B
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Post by Sloop John B » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:50 pm

Rich, we love these good posts from people who's third or forth lanquage might be english. They are very understood by us in their enthusiasm and adventures and they do much to help us.

However, this guy wanting a bigger value on the right side and basic questions about importation is a good child or an imposter, and if the latter, not really that clever.

Edit: On second reading, it's a guy with a translation dictionary on his lap and his third cousin in the states is non other that loopy dave.

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ESPERANZA
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Post by ESPERANZA » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:19 pm

What year X is this guy sailing. It sounds like he may have a 97' like mine. The 97' has the small fill valve on the transom and the vent valve/plug under the companionway step. I think he's trying to replace the small fill valve and install the V berth vent... :? Anyone else have a guess?
Dik...

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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:57 pm

His question is a perfectly valid one. He has exactly the ballast valve system I have, all the X's up until around '98 had a 1-1/2" valve on the port side (left) of the motor on the transom and a second valve and vent under the removable step in the cabin.

When they went to the single larger transom valve on the starboard side (right) side of the motor they removed the inlet recessed into the bottom of the boat just aft of the centerboard slot. and they moved the vent up front in the compartment under the vee berth. They also did away with the small removable step and went to the flip up ladder at the companionway.

There is no way on an early boat to move the valve to the starboard (right) side of the motor.

I've been told the channel from the tank going to the port side of the transom is large enough to support the bigger transom valve. To change the valve you have to carefully cut the opening larger making sure that your new bigger hole doesn't extend outside the water channel. It sounds like the channel alignment and the existing hole can vary so you would want to remove the small valve and feel around inside to confirm that there is enough clearance before you start cutting. The larger valve is just a standard RV waste valve just like the original one except bigger. Both are readily available in the US, but I couldn't say what can be found elsewhere.

Also, there are no nuts that hold the valve in place. The holes the machine screws go into are simply tapped into the fiberglass itself. You should make sure there is also room for the new mounting holes to remain entirely within the ballast channel as well. To mount the new valve you will have to drill small holes and tap them for the proper size machine screw.

I'd also be concerned about moving the vent. The newer boats have a bump in the tank up front where the vent hole is drilled as well as a nice splash collar. The old boats just have a flat tank up front. When the tank is full water is just going to overflow out the hole without the raised section. Perhaps it would work with a hole drilled and tapped into the tank up front and a hose run up to the anchor locker drain like some have done to make the tank self venting.

Personaly I don't think it's worth the trouble for the small time difference the larger valve will make in filling and dumping, particularly if you still use the second fill valve under the step.

As far as importing the Mac, there is a whole group, Sharp Marine that sells Macs throughout Europe.

There info is available here:

http://www.macgregorexport.com

Sloop, I wouldn't make fun of posts from those for whom english is a second or third language when those for whom it is a first language can't even spell 'fourth' correctly.

Miquel

Post by Miquel » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:21 am

Just a comment on Macgregor distributors in Europe. Better be carefull with which one you choose, mainly keeping in mind warranty rights and services.

I know the Spanish Mac distributor, based in Madrid, and they claim they are exclusive for Spain. If a Mac is not bought through their company, they will not provide any service to the boat, even if in warranty period, and will reffer the owner to the seller, or to Mac US. We all know it's not the same moving a boat (even if trailorable) than sending by post a package. :( :(

In the UK there is also an exclusive dedicated Mac distributor available, which was present at the Excel boat show.

I have used the services of the one in The Netherlands to buy some spare parts, and they are dedicated Mac distributors.

I was told in Dusseldorf boat show that there is no Mac distributor in Germany, and in fact, there was no Mac in the boat show (the former distributors are now the Odin - Mast distributors). :?

In the Paris boat show Mac was not present. I had once found a group in the South of France, which name I don't recall, but I find it no more. :?
In Belgium there is no Mac distributor; it's covered from The Netherlands.

I didn't know of the group Duane found (http://www.macgregorexport.com/), but I don't find where they are located. And they claim to be exclusive :?: :?: :?: And if you should have to trailer your Mac from the South of Spain (just an example) to Croatia for a warranty issue, or to send it to the US, it could be quite expensive :? :? :?

Just as for any other valuable thing you would buy, I think it is worth carefully taking a look to the guys that are selling.

Fair winds,

Miquel
Culzean

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kmclemore
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Post by kmclemore » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:59 am

Duane Dunn, Allegro wrote:When they went to the single larger transom valve on the starboard side (right) side of the motor they removed the inlet recessed into the bottom of the boat just aft of the centerboard slot. and they moved the vent up front in the compartment under the vee berth. They also did away with the small removable step and went to the flip up ladder at the companionway.
Actually, there was a cutover group of boats in 1998 that had both the larger right-hand valve and still had the vent in the companionway step... I know, because I have one. Actually, I'm trying to determine the best way to move the vent forward, and I think I've got it sorted now - just have to get up the gumption to drill a hole in my forward tank! :?

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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:37 am

I agree with Duane. Wow, mark it on the calendar. There appears to me to be limited benefit to moving/enlarging the valves and a fairly large potential for error, if not total disaster.

Duane, can you comment on the statement about the tank not emptying fully? Certainly this would be a problem, but is it a characteristic of the old style valve or an indication of something else awry? I suppose a return question would be how much remains in the tank. Certainly, 5 gallons or so (or 20 liters for the metrically adept :wink: ) wouldn't be too much of a problem.

BTW, this board is for all Mac owners, not just those whose first language is English. It's in the spirit of the board that those whose first language isn't English should feel just as welcome to ask questions as anyone else. If we spent time making fun of all the speeling and gramatticle erors insted of concentrating on the gist of the discussion, very few of us would get off free. Heck, KMC probably wonders if any of us ectually speaks the King's English.

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argonaut
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Post by argonaut » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:43 am

My boat's a 97 according to the tag but has the starboard transom valve, and the goofy valve/vent under the step, guess it was a transition boat.

It's been altered by it's PO though. The forward tank looks to have a threaded fitting, maybe 5/8 or 3/4, and is vented via vinyl hose vertically up the interior starboard side to a... garden host faucet clamped onto the wall ?!
The added vent fitting is not on the centerline of the tank either, it's on the starboard side, I can take a picture if anyone's curious.

My ballast setup is obviously not original issue, I'm thinking about taking that vinyl hose forward to the anchor locker so it can breathe.

Why did they bother with two openings anyway? Do most people just open the transom valve or does the step valve get used for filling?

Is there a use for the step vent after the forward tank's been vented, or can I plug that thing? I'd love to get rid of that bolt-on step & build something more substantial there.
Last edited by argonaut on Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:10 am

I'm about 99% certain the two vents are necessary because the older tank has two high spots. If you plug, eliminate or don't open one or the other of the vents, air will remain trapped and it will be impossible to fill the tank completely.

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kmclemore
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Post by kmclemore » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:11 am

Chip Hindes wrote:BTW, this board is for all Mac owners, not just those whose first language is English. It's in the spirit of the board that those whose first language isn't English should feel just as welcome to ask questions as anyone else (...) Heck, KMC probably wonders if any of us ectually speaks the King's English.
Actually, my first language is Profane... does that count?

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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:17 am

I can't find Profania on the map. I'm guessing it's somether near Elbonia? Or is it closer to Lower Slobovia?

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Sloop John B
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Post by Sloop John B » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:40 am

Yeah, all right.

Duanes layout of the 96 has this fellows questions make sense. I just hope Remi finds the good advice and courtesy you guys have extended.

And Remi, the Looper was one of our favorites and is missed.

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ESPERANZA
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Post by ESPERANZA » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:48 am

I was thinking of putting an extra vent in the bow of my 97' cause the bow sits a little high. I always have to put a 225lb. Swede on the bow and have him jump up and down to burp the silly thing... With the extra vent I could run the motor in reverse and back the thing full as someone else recommended here a while back...
Dik...

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norbert
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Post by norbert » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:24 am

thanx folks for your broad-mindeness against non-native us-english speakers on this board.

to make the confusion complete: my x is a '97 model, she has the large starboard transom valve, no bottom valve (not even the moulded cavitiy in the bottom), and the vent plug is under the cabin step...

remi, si tu observes ce serveur, tu peux m envoyer un courriel en utilisant le bouton ci-dessous. j habite l allemagne et ai achete mon macx en france.

yes, guys, english is my 3rd language :wink: !

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argonaut
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Post by argonaut » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:19 am

Not that weird Norbert... Mine's really a 97 made in 96, not a 98, and I have the same arrangement.
Where are your vents?
Mais je l'achete ici... pas en france.
Last edited by argonaut on Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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