Mac comparisons

[mk_johnson]

Hello,

I'm looking at potentially buying my first Mac. I think a mac 26m is out of the question, (don't want to spend that kinda cash). Sail boats are kinda rare here (montana), so I'm trying to compare Macgregor 26s, 26d and 26x. How does there sail performance compare. I like the thought of they 26x, but am more concerned with the sailing part of the boat. I'm not a racer, but like a good sailing boat.

Thanks,

Mike

[Hardcrab]

I don't have direct experience with any of the three mentioned, but I understand the older S and D's to be much better sailors.
The X and M offer other tangible things at the expense of all out sailing performance.

Tuff choice if you haven't already seen the need/desire for what the X-M can bring to the table.
Do you see mostly daylight type use with little overnighting? S or D
Any plans for tubing or other watersports with some young ones with decent headroom room to sleep and cook aboard for the weekend? X or M
Power to motor greater distances for whatever reason, hands down, X/M.

Lesser tow vehicle is needed by the S/D's.

The X / M isn't the very last place sailing dog ever sold.
At least 10-15% of all the sail boats out there will be out-sailed by a decent skipper on an X/M.
A much higher percentage for the S/D.

Good luck.

[kmclemore]

!	kmclemore:
	Mike, I deleted your other forum entry and I shadowed this topic with the other thread so this single discussion will be seen in both areas. This will save duplication. Your friendly Mod, Kevin

[johnnyonspot]

I will agree with Hardcrab. You said you are more into sailing, so I would go with one of the classics, the S or D. They will out sail the X and M, assuming the skill level of the skippers is the same, and using the same sails. This is especially true, imho, when sailing into the wind. Take this fwiw as I have never sailed an S or D, but have sailed on an X, and have tons of experience on the forerunner to the S/D, the Mac 25. The cost variable is also significant, both in purchase price and operating, since the classics do not require a big engine nor a lot of fuel. In the end, though, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

Where do you plan to sail in MT? Flathead Lake by chance? I am considering moving to the Havre area, at least for a while anyway (not really by choice), and the best thing in that area looks to be the Fresno Reservoir, though I don't know if people even sail on that. I'd love to live in the Kalispell area and sail Flathead Lake. That looks like a really nice lake/area, at least on the map.

[mk_johnson]

Thanks everyone for your help. Still kinda deciding on a boat. Kinda leaning towards a 26D or 26S. My wife and I don't have kids yet, but hope to and so are looking for a boat that can sleep a small family on short weekends. We also hope to tow the boat to a couple lakes in Montana and Idaho, and maybe even the San Juans once a year.

Thanks again,

Mike

[dvideohd]

If there is "stuff" in the water - you might consider the S - due to the swing keel. It will cost a bit more - but has some advantages for lake sailing.

You can also likely sail right by all the Xs and Ms - :>

---jr

[patsjoy]

I have a 26D, 1990 model. easy to pull, and plenty of room been caught in 35kt winds, and she behaves well. did get the dagger board stuck in the mud once. the boat just spun around in 20kt winds until I could pull it out. I was on the maiden voyge, by myself. She is one of the most stable boats I ever had. I Like the dagger board because of the simplicity, KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. you can see the whole board from the top, plus it can be a little faster. Either one can keep your options open. Not a lot around but they can be found. Good luck finding one.

[Sumner]

We bought a S this spring and are very happy with it. We just got back from a month trip with 12 days on Priest Lake in Idaho and 12 days on the West Arm of Kootenay Lake in B.C.. It was a great time and we were glad to have the swing centerboard as we managed to meet the bottom a couple times with no problems. We also have one of the release type cam cleats on the rudder and it also managed to release a couple times. If we had it to do all over again we would still get an S. I saw 2 X's and one M on the trip and really liked the looks of them and they look far larger than the S in real life even though they are the same length. If room is of concern then the X might be right for you. For the two of us the S is big enough and we were ready to stay out longer, but had commitments at the Bonneville Salt Flats. We stayed on the boat every night leading up to that, about 25 days, in comfort and not feeling cramped, but we made a lot of mods to the boat that helped with that and more or to come.

This is the first time we ever sailed and with no instruction it has been pretty easy with the 26S and it is real forgiving considering some of the dumb things we have done. We got ours out of Phoenix after using a nationwide search on Craig's list ( http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cpboat ).

Good luck and I don't think you will be sorry getting a Mac,

Sum and Ruth

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[argonaut]

Welcome to the board!
One thing for certain, the folks here have a wealth of experience and these guys are invaluable. It it's been thought or done, likely they already have. Hardcrab's comments are concise. So prowl some old postings and you'll decipher all the plusses and minuses of each model.

But I bet you find people like whatever boat they have!

I lurked here a long time considering my Mac, looked at several S models and finally bought an X. What's already been said is very true, essentially the S or D sails great and the X/M sails pretty decently but has a great interior but scoots along with it's bigger motor when you want to get somewhere fast or just pull kids on tubes.
Either boat seems to age well, from a cost of ownership standpoint you shouldn't lose money on either.

I will say this, about young kids...
On the X you can drop the table into bed position and it makes this huge space that's also handy for changing tikes or for toddlers to sleep or whatever. Table up and you have a nice table and can see the whole family, diner style. And you have excellent views out the windows while you eat. And the bow area is prime sleeping territory. I prefer the v berth and table berth to under the cockpit. That's my storage area.

On the S or D you still have a great cockpit, boom's lower so more likely to ding wife/kids/yourself. Interior is nearly same space, but more cut up, basically the bow area is harder to reach. Most folks just store stuff in the bows of S/D boats. Ya have to poptop up for standing headroom... and you won't be sailing with it up. But it's a killer sailboat... PHRF is like 214-216. The X is so high I'm embarrassed to print it. I've been left in the dust by several... but we both enjoyed the chase. On a beat the X, well, it sails. The S/D is quite happy going to wind with less freeboard. It may be Roger's best sailing boat.

"On motors"
I hate keeping motors running. I long for the simplicity of a nice 9.9, low maintenance, starts everytime, throw it inthe truck if it dies idea. My experience with my X's awful Honda 50 left me emotionally scarred for life. I mean, I want to sail, not kiss a motor's behind every time I wanna get wind. Bigger motors mean fuel injection or multiple carbs, hence potentially more expensive problems. A 9.9 is less work and $ to keep than a 50/60/90??. Do you need the speed?


So, consider the expense/complexity of the bigger motor on most X models, not to mention the extra weight.

Points to the S/D for sailing ability, simplicity, lower cost of ownership.
Points to the X for interior spaciousness, speed capability above hull speed with bigger ob, anchor storage, easy transom entry, & nicer biffy.
Try to see 'em both to see what works best for you.

[captain frank II]

If you like the Macgregor D sailing performance and don't care about big motor advantages of the x or M , then

also consider an S2 7.9 with a PHRF of 168 ! It also has better headroom than Mac D and S and sleeps 4 with ease, has a spacious cockpit and rides low on the trailer like the MACs . Raise the dagger board via winch and draft decreases to 13 inches and it can be beached. Need a tow vehicle that can pull 5,000 lbs though as it is a very well built boat.

Hunter 260 is very spacious and has performance similar to Mac D and S.... has the small motor also.

Check all the sailboat websites and get an idea of which fits your budget as well. The more expensive replacement items on sailboats are the Sails, the cabin cushions, and the motor. Try not to settle for a boat with gelcoat blisters or soft spots !

[mikelinmon]

Hi,
I'd say most important value choice is the trailer. Look for rust and don't buy. The replacement trailer is about $3,000 for small boats and much more for the heavy ones and hard to get, try to find a trailer manufacturer still in business! Get a boat used in fresh water only unless the trailer is aluminum! My favorite is the 26D for value if youi don't need the speed under power, First would be the M, but out of the price range you mentioned for comfort, speed (go to Catalina same day), pretty, alum trailer. As for other brands; they are mostly one trick ponies as each boat will do one thing pretty well. The Potter will fit in anybodys garage and pull behind any car (that is two tricks). All the rest only have one trick. Hobie 33 with speed under sail but tough to rig or trailer with very littlee room, Clipper 30 for most room on a trailer but butt ugly and pretty bad at everything else, there is this very $$$ 32 footer from FL with shallow draft and too heavy to trailer for most of us. Can't think of any other boats on top of any game, the Catalina 22 for most boats ever made. Most willl find the Mac 25 to be best value including several good to very good tricks, light, easy to trailer and rig, plus fast under sail. Prettiest is the Venture of Newport (V/M 23)
Any other nominations out there? I bet this topic has longest list of nominations. We all love to advise which boat for someone else to buy. i'll always say the M ( wonder why) unless details such as money or space/ toweing require some other choice
Mike inmon

[baldbaby2000]

I would say put the Mac 25 on your list of possibilities. I've owned 2 of them. Not as fast as the classics in lighter winds but less tender and probably more contollable in the heavier winds because they have a weighted swing keel. We had an enclosure for our pop-top that gave us headroom. If you do consider a Mac 25, be sure to inspect any carefully. When trailering them it's important to lower the keel onto the trailer or the hull may become distorted.

[Sumner]

...... I'd say most important value choice is the trailer. Look for rust and don't buy. The replacement trailer is about $3,000 for small boats and much more for the heavy ones and hard to get, try to find a trailer manufacturer still in business! ...........Mike inmon

I saw a trailer of I think for a 26D on craigs list the other day for either $250 or $500. If anyone is interested look at the link in my other post.

Also while racing at Bonneville last week one of the course workers saw my Mac and asked if I wanted another. He has either a D or S that I think he wants $6500 for in the LA area and he claims that it is in great shape. I might be able to get a hold of him if someone is interested.

Sum