MacGregorSailors.com

You won't really have an interference problem on vhf. FM radio is much more tolerant of noise as is digital radio as well. RFI from charge controllers and inverters become a problem when you are using an AM radio, short wave, a marine or ham sideband radio and CW. The RFI can literally make it impossible to hear anything except the very loudest of signals. So, if you never use or listen to shortwave, have no interest in marine or ham sideband then it is not a problem (for you). It may be a problem for your neighbors in the marina though!

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave

paula_ke wrote:Being a Ham radio operator and having a Ham radio on board I am very aware of noise generation. With MPPT controllers you get what you pay for. I've used three different mppt controllers with an eye towards low RFI (radio frequency interference). The cheap one's on Amazon are the worst. Broad spectrum noise on the shortware/HF bands (so if you plan to get some of your weather from shortwave you will have to disconnect your charger to hear anything). I settled on an expensive Morning Star Tri Star MPPT contoller (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010G ... bw_c_x_2_w that has FCC Class B certification for my 240 watt 4X4 van setup. When I was first looking there were very few options for low power MPPT with FCC Class B. It made mobile Ham radio operations possible during the day when the sun was out!

For the boat I found a lower cost controller designed by an EE that is also a Ham radio operator. https://www.diysolarforu.com/store/c1/F ... ducts.html. It is perfect for up to 16 amps or 300 watts. Works great, good price, not over kill and very RFI quiet.

Thanks for sharing Cap

While I'm not doin SSB or anything, that doesn't mean I can''t get interference as, yes I've bought most of my kit from Amazon So I'm gonna list my kit & tell me if you think I have a chance

I did go MPPT & I made my own 300W panel array to hang off the back of Miss Ollie. But I think this season I'm gonna dedicate 100Ws to the motor, I bought 2 more panels At 100W ea. My current Spring plans is to feed my 2 banks of 235ah AGMS with 200W ea. Yes 4 6V grouped into 2 12v house banks, A & B. To feed the house @ 12Vs & tap as 24Vs to motor a Motorguide 24V bow mount thruster.& @ 200W each bank, I'll use mppt controllers. Re 12V motor bat I could go either way, PWM or mppt. I have both, just have to work out the wiring now I would also like to make both 12v banks available to supply the house, if necessary - but will it really become so

This is a pic showing 300W array. I'm thinking of switching to 1 panel per bank for traveling & storage & then: 100 - Motor, 200 House A, 200W House B.

https://flic.kr/p/24WVook


Kit:
https://www.amazon.com/QTY-XTR6-235-235 ... 9YZXBFSS53

This x2: https://www.amazon.com/EPEVER-Controlle ... controller with another available. Or PWM to control motor solar panel. - what do you think?

With this x5. The later 2 & the 3 bank configuration to be configured.
https://www.amazon.com/SunPower-Flexibl ... lar+panels

& This mod fr. hull - To be completed
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MotorGuide-Xi5 ... SwNOJavVex

Wow, that is a whole lot of solar rigging!

First, the MPPT controller is probably going to noisy as all get out. That has been my experience with Chinese controllers. FCC does not require part B certification as they consider charge controllers as industrial instruments. If you need all that IT connectivity then your options are limited to really cheap Chinese controllers or very expensive US controllers (that also have FCC Part B)

I have two of those flexible panels. I re-enforced the feed point by opening up the black terminal box and drilling two holes through the PEM (plastic substrate) and putting a couple of #10 screws with nuts and washers. The glue they use is pretty wimpy, kind of looks like hot glue. These panels do not have blocking diodes, only bypass diodes so parallel installation can be problematic when one panel is uncovered and the other is not. Hotspots on the shaded panel can occur. There is a long thread on parallel vs series. I'm in the series camp.

Those AGMs look very cool. I would love to have 235 AH (115 usable). I may go the 6 volt golf cart battery route.

I don't quite understand how you will get 24 volts. In boats that I have seen where they need 12 volt house and 24 volt engine batteries, they have 2 separate banks and two separate charging systems. Maybe you can elaborate?

Looks like you are aiming to have a heck of a lot of juice on board. Have you ever done an energy audit? eg, under sale, what is hooked up to the house, what is you full on light draw, stereo, vhf, gps etc? You need to know that before knowing how much solar you need to keep them topped off.

Good luck! looks like a fun project.

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave

Firstly, I am humbled & grateful. But I'm also not trying to hijack your topic. So, Mods, If you think it's appropriate, feel free to split this conversation off. Think of a clever topic

I don't Need 2 12V banks. I put the 2nd on when I got a bug in my brain about a "bow thruster/ bow mount mod idea"

B Bank can go with the trolling motor, on Ebay - if I can't figure it out.

I've seen Batteries hooked in series & parallel. So, what I'm wondering is if 2 6V banks wired & charged at 12Vs; Can also be bridged in series to power a 24V trolling motor & when not used as such, be a 12V house battery backup.

Anyone??

So, what I'm wondering is if 2 6V banks wired & charged at 12Vs; Can also be bridged in series to power a 24V trolling motor & when not used as such, be a 12V house battery backup.

I think this combiner will work like you describe allowing you full capacity at 12v or 24v automatically.

https://www.yandina.com/troll24info.htm

Seapup wrote:

So, what I'm wondering is if 2 6V banks wired & charged at 12Vs; Can also be bridged in series to power a 24V trolling motor & when not used as such, be a 12V house battery backup.

I think this combiner will work like you describe allowing you full capacity at 12v or 24v automatically.

https://www.yandina.com/troll24info.htm

I would highly recommend going this way if you are set on a 24 volt trolling motor for the bow thruster. I picked...



... a 24 volt as I felt it was more efficient for longer distance cruising using it. I have two arrays on the boat. One 12 volt array and a 24 volt array. Two charge controllers, one 12 volt one 24 volt. I'm using 2 Deka 12 volt batteries as they got good reviews for the trolling motor.

At night I can turn 2 switches and convert the 24 volt battery bank into another 12 volt battery bank and connect it to the 12 volt house bank. This has worked well and has given us all the electrical we need but the wiring was difficult and complex and not as efficient as if all the batteries were tied together all the time and all the charging sources going to them.

Get the Troll24BatA thing and simplify everything and make it more efficient. I might think about switching to it myself.

In your case though I'd just go with a 12 volt trolling motor as I'll bet it would work as a bow thruster in most all conditions. Also I'd get a better charge controller than what you showed if you put on that much solar. If you don't need flexible panels I'd go with fixed ones also. Save a lot of money there and wonder if the batteries you are getting are worth almost twice the cost of 4 golf cart batteries.

More on the trolling motor I got and the rest of it here....

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/mac-1/mac-outsi ... age-1.html

I still haven't really tried running very far on the trolling motor. Mainly got it as I had hope to do the Erie Canal and thought it would be a nice option there. So haven't use it but have really liked having a 560 watt total array. Never been without power even when there has been clouds for 3 days or so,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

@Gazmn simple answer, yes. However, these are high current paths and would need big wire and big switches. One possibility I considered for my partners troller was to use half of the 24v bank as 12 volt house, leave the other half in series for 24 volt and have one charger that charges 24 volts. The compromise is that you will run down half your bank and may not have enough power to run your full 24 bank for bow thruster.

Best bet is to have two separate banks, two chargers and never the twain shall meet. Or, just go for one big 12 volt bow thruster and one big battery bank (my vote).

Typically the bow thruster is used while docking or mooring. A few seconds of thrust each time it is used, so, having a less efficient 12 volt thruster does not really hurt. My partner's troller has bow and stern thrusters that are 12 volts. They work fine off the house battery setup.

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave

eodjedi wrote:I was thinking of getting something like this for the MPPT:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075NQQRPD/re ... 87065&sr=1

That,s the same one I bought

As for the stern rail seats they r as Tom say,s the best seats in the house especially while sailing great view for taking pic,s when on both either low or high side & when I have company on board while at slip or anchor everyone heads for them seats best view on board u get too see everything around u

I have 3 40 watt panels which I will b installing inside an alum angle frame for better stiffness & support as u do not want these framed panels flexing , they say the framed panels r good for 20yrs @ 80% & the flex ones about 5yrs @ 80% that,s why I went with the framed one,s more bang for ur buck $$$
My radar arch I ordered back in mid Dec is suppose to arrive today so hopefully I,ll soon b installing my Radar Radome & panel,s

J

Here,s another post on the subject Charge Controllers from last yr
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26042&p=323525#p323344

J
PS Also just a note check with the panel manufacturer before hooking panels up in series I just discovered that some panels should only b hooked up in parallel something to do with the inside of connection box on the rear of the panels could b damaged in series hook up going from 12v to 24v

Hmmm, the connection box typically has 1, 2 or 3 diodes. The cheap flexible panels have one diode which acts as a bypass diode. Bypass diodes are used when two panels are put in series where one may be in shade. when that happens. the panel in shade looks like a high resistance and limits the current of the second panel. The bypass diode allows the second panel (in sun) to bypass the resistance of the shaded panel.

More expensive solid panels may have two diodes. Since just about all panels are made up of two sets of 16 cells, each set providing the 12v-18v, two diodes can allow partly shaded panels to contribute current where the good sub array adds current and is not bypassed and the shaded sub array looks like high resistance and is bypassed.

These examples outline by-pass diodes. They are really only useful when putting array's into series.

The final diode you may find on older panels is a blocking diode. Originally, before the ubiquity of charge controllers with build in blocking diodes, a blocking diode would block and back current from a battery (or poorly designed charge controller) from passing back through a panel and depleting the battery or destroying cells on the panel (older cells would heat up. Even today's cells may heat up if the voltage across the cell gets to high.)

Blocking diodes can still be useful in parallel setups where voltages can get very high or a cell in a panel is damaged. The blocking diode would keep any back current from stealing array power.

@Sumner Basically, for the typical cheap panel, I think it may be the other way around. Series hookups should be fine for any panels. Parallel could be a problem if shaded panels allow back current.

Now, if you are talking charge controllers, 12V PWM controllers will overheat and you will likely let the magic smoke out if you hook up a series array that pushes 36V. Most MPPT controllers are designed to handle 50V or higher.

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave

It seemed like I just blinked & then all these posts appeared since my last one

Thanks guys. I have a lot of reading to do.

I bought a 24 volt for the extra juice, but mainly the shaft length. I got the 60" & hope it's long enough or I gotta find an authorized Motorguide mechanic & got a lot of "Esplainin' to do", to try & get it reshafted to 72". Plus I gotta build a deck mount which is probably gonna be outside the Port rail, as I don't have lines running aft on that side. & it also needs to be out of the way of my anchor setups, headsail etc.

I'll try to find suitable pics from history. The boat's still under a tarp

Bow shot taken from Starboard trailer ladder

Big ole Motorguide 60" shaft & 80lb thrust Saltwater


So I'm thinking outside the Port rail. Maybe making a SS loop that I can connect to the stanchion & use 3/4" starboard to cover & bed the mount. It would lay on side similar to how my boom is currently. Thoughts



Thanks for the combiner leads

paula_ke wrote:....@Sumner Basically, for the typical cheap panel, I think it may be the other way around. Series hookups should be fine for any panels. Parallel could be a problem if shaded panels allow back current.....

??? Don't think I said anything related to that on this thread,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Sorry Sumner, meant Highlander. My bad (need to open another window with the thread while I'm typging)

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave

paula_ke wrote:Sorry Sumner, meant Highlander. My bad (need to open another window with the thread while I'm typging)

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave

@Sumner Basically, for the typical cheap panel, I think it may be the other way around. Series hookups should be fine for any panels. Parallel could be a problem if shaded panels allow back current.

Hi Paula
Nope all the shading issue,s r with series hook-up unless ur panels have built in by-pass diodes if not then u will need to install them that,s according to everything I,ve checked out & been informed of, also the manufacturer of my panels did not recommend hookin up in series as they r 12v panels ? & designed to b hooked up in parallel something to do with the juntion box behind the panel could b damaged , maybe I,ll try contacting them again on their tech site instead of on the ph & see if I can get a more detailed explanation

J
PS Here,s my E/M to them I,ll let u all know the response I get back
[email protected]
Hi To whom it may concern ,

I have purchased three of these panels & was advised not to hook them up in series as they could poss. get damaged at the rear panel junction box ? as they r designed as 12v panels . I was planning on hooking them up to a Victron bluesolar charge controller # MPPT 75 1 15 was I misinformed ? & if this is correct what exactly would b the tech reason why ? , if I can hook them up in series I assume I,ll have to install by-pass diodes to avoid shading issues as I will b installing these on my sailboat
Any good & correct advise would b gratefully appreciated as I belong to a sailing site where a few other people have purchased these panels as well . so now we have all decided to wait & hear ur advise before going either way series or parallel

Thx u

@highlander, I took a look at the specs on the 100 watt sun force panel and indeed it only specifies a blocking diode which are necessary for parallel installations and older charge controllers (new one's have blocking diodes built in). Putting these panels in series will not affect the voltage across the individual panel so that part of the response does not make sense. If you open the junction box you will likely see 2,3 or 4 terminals with the wire lead out connected to the outside terminals in all cases.
2 terminal. In this case,it is likely there is a diode across the two terminals. This is a bypass diode. It is in parallel with the panel.
3 terminal. There are several ways for the manufacturer to wire this.
3a) most common, there are two diodes across the two gaps. The panel is actually 2 six volt cell sets placed in series. The diodes are in parallel with each 6 volt set. These are bypass diodes.
3b) less common, there are two diodes across the two gaps. The panel is configured such that the junction box see's the entire array as 12 volts. One diode is a bypass diode, the other is a blocking diode.
3c) even less common. there is one diode across one of the gaps. The array has no bypass diode. the diode across the gap is a blocking diode.
4 terminal. This usually has three diodes. Two are bypass diodes and one is a blocking diode.

That is kind of the choices on configuring a junction box.

What does the inside of your junction box look like?

Captain Paula of the good ship AirWave