MacGregorSailors.com

Probably some of Frax's comments are directed at me.

Here goes

just for people that are trying to be funny and comlaining about small details...

I'm a pilot and and a sailor, and engineer, and several other trainings......
details are my job.....especially when they aren't all out or dont add up.
I notice the location was removed from the author data now.

i m serius and dont have time to play with kids....

Thankyou for the implication that I am young......lol.....however I am not, so careful is probably the operative word. I am very serious about sailing my mac..... read my posts...... I go where there is no land in sight....and they wont find all my mistakes.......if they are all washed up onshore in a month or two.

But foolish.......or childish.........no.

I expressed curiosity about motivation, genuine intent, and timeliness.
Once you have a mac and have spent as many nights in her.....on and off hook.......you will surely have excellent opinions about her seakeeping.

But this board has many very, very talented individuals....... perhaps you are one of them, but I fail to see how noticing that many of the experienced sailors on here wonder about your motives, abilities, and goals.... will help in the long run........ especially since many of them provide much of the on boat experience.;




I also think it is very do-able to travel in the mac.......tho not without a lot of preparation.

I also fully support mods to improve strenth handling and balance.


Good luck in your endeavors. I look forward to reading more.

Darren.

Some thoughts from someone with absolutely no experience in ocean travel...

I'd strengthen the rigging, starting with beefier chainplates in reinforcement applied to the hull (easier but uglier to do on the outside) and use backing plates rather than just have big screw heads on one side of the glass. Same with the stem and backstay tangs (I'd have two backstays). In fact, I'd like to run the stem to both sides of the bow. I'd radius the backing plate edges and corners. I'd go up to 3/16" on all the stays and shrouds. Even though it would add to weight aloft (as would heavier standing rigging, I'd go to heavier stainless steel spreaders, maybe even reinforcing them as well.

I'd reinforce the mast raising attachment point, add tangs, block, and halyard for a staysail that had its forestay sewn in the luff, using 4:1 tackle on the halyard and running it aft along with the jib halyard and downhaul on the port side. I think I'd also might add a stay between the masthead and bow pulpit just for support, but that would interfere with tacking an asymmetrical spinnaker. I'd stick with more reliable hank-on foresails, and would consider moving the jib sheet tracks outboard on the cabin top. I'd also go with heavier sails. In addition to leading the main halyard aft, I'd lead aft reefing lines separately from the 2nd (higher) reef points at leech and luff. More reliable than single-line reefing and the 2nd reef point is the one you'd least like to be at the mast to make, compared to the first. I think the gooseneck could stand beefing up as well.

I think the rudders are a serious problem... long and with only six inches or so of support by the brackets... begging to be snapped off just below the bracket. I'd come up with something thicker, wider, and shorter, with pintle and gundgeon at the top and bottom of the transom. I also don't trust the factory steering gear at all. There are numerous reports of failure here, and I'd replace it with something more substantial. I also don't trust the X pedestal for mainsheet attachment in heavy storm conditions. I'd either beef it up with backing plates on both sides of a reinforced deck, or consider a traveler across the forward cockpit seats, definitely with backing plates below.

MaddMike's alleged swing keel sounds like an improvement, but I'm not sure I'd want or need the swing. I personally would rather not have the moving parts, including the wing at the bottom. I'd probably try a shallow 2' deep fixed keel, the length of the centerboard well, and perhaps of the Scheel design for any hydrodynamic benefit it may have as well as to get weight lower, especially considering the weight added aloft in my first paragraph. That should put your total draft less than 3.5' heavily loaded. I'd eliminate the vertical hanger and bolt and pin the keel into the centerboard well with several pins through its side.

There are definitely some areas in the hull I'd beef up, and I think I'd try to seal the forward compartment below the V-berth where the floatation foam is, in case of impact with a floating object. I'd definitely beef up the forward hatch, with at least another couple of latches on each side of the factory center one, and another couple of hinges. I don't think I'd glass it closed as some might.

I think I'd replace the forward ports with heavier plexiglas. Some might block them off with aluminum plate, etc, but I like having the forward view. I'd replace the side ports with a glassed-in 3-layer sandwhich of material (larger dimensions on the outside and inside than in the middle) and install good quality opening port lights with screens in them. Maybe smaller ports on each side of the head bulkhead.

I don't trust the companionway hatch. One member here reported it flexible enough to pop out of the tracks when trailering. As a minimum, I'd run aluminum straps across and above it from track to track and tether it. With the way water can get under the front of it, those straps might even better be replaced with a full custom fiberglass sea hood. I'd also replace the hatchboard tracks with some that would accomodate thicker hatchboards, and I'd go with three. I'd use barrel bolts to hold the lower one in place since the X doesn't have a bridge deck. Some might use more permanent fastening. I'd like a port in the middle hatchboard.

For power, I'd use four 12V Group 27 Lifeline AGMs (105AH each) strapped down on either side of the centerboard well two on the cabin sole across from the galley, and two below the cooler tub, which should give you about 200AH to work with. All my lights would be LED, including an expensive Orca Green Tricolor/Anchor with Strobe up top. Water would be by a 12V PUR 40 (with backup manual operation) into flexible tanks in the bilge on each side of the boat.

I'd go with a 15 HP lightweight Honda outboard with its 12A charging. I'd get the 25" XL leg to help keep the prop in heavy seas. To feed it, I'd use waternwaves' 18 gallon aluminum tanks on each side of the cockpit. Solar panels could help out, but I don't think I'd drag anything in the water behind this boat.

I might just forget about refrigeration, and stick with food that doesn't need it. WAY too expensive electrically. I'd carry a small cooler for cold drinks while in port. The cooler area on an X would become more storage. If trips were going to be short hops, with a lot of time in port, then maybe one of those little Engel refrigerators wouldn't be too bad, but I wouldn't use it on long hauls.

Frankly, I think both the V-berth and aft berth might wind up as storage and I'd leave a reinforced version of the table down on the settees all the time with a good twin sized air bed and lee cloth on it for the off-watch crew.

Definitely would have an ocean life raft, ditch bag, and EPIRB aboard with all the weight not to mention a real keel.

Gee Moe............ and here I thought we rarely disagree........lol

beings as we are hypotheticating on a long passage here.........

Agree on:
1) beefier chainplates and backing,
2) thicker spreader cups/mount, thicker wall aluminum for spreader.
3) would add stays for staysil...
4)staysil would be hank on.
5) all lines led astern.
6) gooseneck would get an uhmwpe collar and guide.
7) rudder mounts, my glassed in transom reinforcement ( (for that future 90 hp.)
cabin top (trip hazard) traveller
9) emergency tiller handle
10) steering torque joint to limit rudder forces.
11) modified swing rudder support to greater bearing area and reinforced rudder
12) Emergency single rudder bracket gudgeons hi and low.
13)flat plate the top of the cb with skins, and matching trunk surface. Even barnacles cant stick to UHMWPE, this would quiet the boat and give considerable strenght increase.... unloading the pin and bracket. arrangment we have now.



somewhat agree:
1)tho I might choose only spare stays., the mast cannot really withstand much more strain and already is more likely to bend than the stays part.
2) Cockpit deck and liner reinforcement, for pedestal(but not a plate, would be ribbed underneath and glassed in place. Since the traveler is carring most of the load.)
3) forward hatch seal improvement.... replace the entire thing with a vertical double lip seal.
4) higher lips and seals on the sliding hatch cover.maybe even integrate the hatchcover into the hard dodger to make it a sliding dodger....... (I like that idea..............this one is really growing on me.
5) centerline bladder tankage. ( and a lot of it, in the existing ballast tank)
6) AGMs's
7) A $#!^potload of those little led/solar yard lights around the railings of the boat.
elec/manual watermaker
9)possibly a foil dimensional change for better windward performance. though I keep thinking of a metal filled board.
10) longitudinal external hull stiffeners.
11) a couple of aft twin keels, wider than the rudders.
transom mod to give me an aft external locker big enough for a small 12 genset.

but I am going to differ a bit after breaking things here.......

Disagree:
1. The mac does not need heavier sails-dont need the weight aloft, dont need the poorer sail form, would rather have the sail tear than deck hardware torn loose. (I fought mightily with myself on this, but I am not convinced that I would have gotten into more trouble if I had not torn my regular jib).
Something has to be designed to give, and for me, I would rather carry a spare lightweight sail, than have to repair pulled and torn deck hardware.
2. no spin, not even an asym. (not for single handers)
3. Ports..............arrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh, this location begs. for a stiffer, stronger solution, after those windows are broken....I would make them smaller and more of them......., foredeck glass to be augmented with a set of shutters/covers for hard weather.
4. huge ass gas powerd emergency pump to keep her dry if holed.
5. a hanging seat that sits in companion way when the weather is so nasty that the bimini and dodger are stuffed.......steering on deck when really nasty was not fun,............I repeat........even in a wetsuit.....it is not fun.
6. I would be leaning to a harder shelled dodger.... With short traveler controls passed through the short walls, (traveler sits on top of dodger). Doesnt have to be absolutely water tight, merely water resistant.
7) auxiliary swing away inside steering. If ya had the inside visible seat in the companion way, this might be nice on a regular mac.
if I didnt have the harder dodger.... stiffeners on the top of the slider (which would also hold the solar panels would keep it from popping off.


Now everyone can easily understand why I am looking at building a 36ft knock off.........lol...........all this crap wont fit very well in a 26...lol

Moe,
A very interesting, well-reasoned list. Guess I'd be mostly in agreement, and that overall - we'd have upgraded the Mac very similarly.

- Agree especially about the risk of losing that sliding hatch. Mine was sucked from the tracks due to various dynamics of freeway trailering.

- Agree that the hull under chainplates deserves reinforcing, and backing plates for those screwheads.

- Agree that all pivoting foils are a risk, as are the steering mechanics

- Agree that it's necessary to pin the lower hatchboard as a bridgedeck.

- Agree ... there's no way I'd continue using the pedestal to anchor the mainsheet. A traveler can easily halve the loads across two mounting points. It can bridge the cockpit seats, bridge the coamings, or span the companionway just afore the winches, tho this greatly elevates sheeting loads for the boom and the crew.

- Agree that those nice, big forward ports are a giant risk, deserving reinforcement. I like WW's idea of shutters, but find it hard to imagine a practical implementation.

- I also might try to reinforce the forward hull with a plywood bulkhead just aft of those big ports, about 18" (?) forward of the mast. (The companionway stabilizes the hull form just a few feet aft of the mast.)

- I actually think the mast section is a much greater risk than the size of wiring, as another recent thread demonstrates. The boom & gooseneck are also too light for Bay sailing, let alone offshore.

- I must disagree about upsizing the shrouds. The 3/16" wire has about 40% higher breaking strength than factory's 5/32", so it demands 40% higher static tension to just remove inate stretch. All of those loads go down to the center of the vast cabin cavern - too much, I think.

- I'd still prefer more horsepower than you. However, I must grant you that maddmike apparently suceeded quite well doing it as you would.

Thanks....

now i got some ideas......

some of the mods you suggested is allready done..
but now i got allot of nice input and im very greatful for that.

and if you have a look at this link.. http://www.yachtservices.eu.com/
you will see the company im working for and as you can see i have alot of tools and machines to play with so im really in a dream position here...
last week i put my boat inside and lifted here wih a big lift so i have here hanging in the roof..^^

and i allready changed the windows to polycarbonate windows..
the say its really strong and eaven bulletproof if its used in a proper way.

well... time to do some work....


thank you for your help...

There is a Spanish bloke and his wife who arrived at our marina a few weeks ago.He has been sailing around the world for the last 4 years on his third boat that he built himself and hardly goes into marina's to berth but prefers anchorages instead and uses his tender to pick up supplies etc.to save costs
He came into berth to look for odd jobs for cash to carry on with his travels.
I decided after speaking with him, to help me install new electronic equipment on board my M.
After looking around the Mac,he was greatly impressed by what he saw.
His comments to me were,that he wouldn't have a problem with taking the Mac across the Atlantic after a few revisions to the standing rigging.(He gave me a detailed upgrade plan.)He was happy with the strength of the hull and deck and liked the idea of water ballast and low draft.
He conviced me to leave to the task on hand to him. 2 days later I returned to the boat and could'nt believe how neatly he had installed the systems,with all cabling hidden and tagged.
He left yesterday to sail onto Mauritius .
Good luck with your travels Juan.

Frax wrote:and i allready changed the windows to polycarbonate windows..
the say its really strong and eaven bulletproof if its used in a proper way.

Nice setup you have at work.

Even with stronger "windows," I'd cut out some plywood or aluminum plate covers with bolts through them and crossbars that go over the bolts. In the event a window is blown out, you can manuver the plate cover from inside to outside through the broken window, and tighten the crossbars on the bolts against the interior of the boat to pull the plate tight against the outside.

This isn't an original idea. I've read of several offshore sailors having these as backup, even with smaller, much stronger ports.

I do like all of the mods on "blue water". What is it going to take to make a Mac so that it can withstand being rolled, beam to beam or end over end, and have wave after wave fall on top of it? BIG WAVES!!

Are you truely ready to go 24 days across the ocean on a light displacement 26 foot boat? It will be very much like a washing machine.
Your preps may require more time than the boat mods.

Hmmmm

have you being out there???

im not planning to get big waves over me... im planing to stay on the surface.... and have some nice sailing...

my last trip around the world in my steel ketch (15 ton)
i had 85% of the time no wind or wery week wind..

and if you go sailing and plan for it and read the weather youre fine..

the reason i sold my 40 feet ketch was that its to much to handle alone all the time.. to hevy to sail in all the light wind on the oceans..
so thats why i bought a mac.. and i already like the mac more than my last boat that i had for five years.. and did a compleat circumnavigation with.

with the right mods to the mac i cant see why people is woried...

rememer that people always being out ther with all different floating things..

i meet a russian guy in newzeland...
he built him self a boat in a apartment in russia...
no engine no electronis.. just a hull and a sail..
the only limit is the sailor...

btw....

my mac is a 1999.

is there any different configurations in different years..??

Stories here of the mast failing do have me concerned. Frank makes a good point about the increase in shroud tension required. Perhaps the Mac hull's bowing inward under shroud tension could be addressed by a compression post between the chain plates. That would certainly help with side wave impacts or a roll over abeam. Might make the side berth a little tight though, and call for roll bar padding. I guess that could also help keep you in the berth in a roll over.

I think the factory mast would do okay with sufficient guying. The fact that it seems to fail at or above the spreaders was my impetus for dual backstays and a supporting forestay from the masthead to bow pulpit. I think spreaders that don't bend like some owners' here have, would be crucial to keeping the mast up.

Darren makes the point against spinnakers for single-handing, which would mean the supporting forestay wouldn't be a problem gybing with one, but I wasn't sure this boat was going to be single-handed. Perhaps a 150% or so drifter with a 120-130% genoa, working jib and storm jib would be better anyway. My reason for sacrificing some support and making the staysail stay removable with the sail was to minimize its interference with tacking and gybing a genoa... not a problem in higher winds where I'd be using the staysail instead of foresail.

He also makes a good point about sticking to lighter sails with spares. With a lighter main and spare, and with only two reefing points, a heavy storm trysail would be the ticket.

In the spirit of hope for the best and plan for the worst, I might hope and do everything possible, but wouldn't plan on, not getting big waves over me. Yes, weather forecasting is really good these days, and the problem of light wind happens a much more often than that of heavy wind, but the consequences of the latter can be more severe.

That leads me back to the outboard size. Pirates come in many forms... from the few with high speed ocean boats and deck-mounted .50 calibers, to the more common opportunistic types in what we'd consider "derelict" boats, who depend on force of numbers or an antique firearm or two. While the best defense is avoiding areas known for them, the second best defense from them is speed. So choosing the small kicker for its fuel efficiency and light weight, permitting more cargo stored in the huge v-berth aft, may sacrifice this advantage. Carrying a firearm really complicates things and may land you in a jail in some countries, where you aren't fed unless you have relatives or a nearby US Consulate.

The 1999 X was made during the "improvement" period and may or may not have all the "upgrades." Here are the factory upgrades over the years.. One big one was the rudder brackets and yours should have the new ones. They're still grossly inadequate for offshore use though, IMO.

Rogers goal was to make an affordable boat that would allow more people to enjoy a life of sailing. He has accomplished that. The keyword is affordable. If I were to wait till I could afford the so called real boat I would never get on the water. So I for one am happy to start with a Mac and do the mods I want, making changes as I can afford (with cash) and not go any deeper in debt. I will spend far less then I would if I purchased the real boat. Part of the joy in owning a boat is just messing about with your boat. The level of mods will be directly related to ones comfort level, to each his own. The Potter is a fine boat, but it is certainly not any safer then a Mac. Bills first statement is Of the modifications I made to the otherwise stock Potter 19, most were aimed at increasing the margin of safety for this already safe and stable design. We are discussing the same thing.

Here are some other items to consider;
Safety harness with the Jacklines mounted on deck and in the cockpit.
I have slipped on the wet deck house before so I am adding toe rails. This will be similar to what I use on my scaffold system. This will help prevent slipping of the deck and reduce the chance of items going in the drink. I lost my gooseneck tube once. They will mount on the inboard side of the stanchion post and will 6 tall. The bottom edge will sit about above the deck.

I also keep a sail repair kit on my boat. I had a 1 long tear in my main sail, during 2002. So I purchased from Sailrite the Small Sail Repair Kit plus a book on making & repairing your sails. You can find the kit on page 20 and the book on page 51 of their catalog. I found the repair to be quite easy after reading the section on repairs. I was not sure how long the repair would hold-up, but it has made it through three seasons. If it starts to fail, Ill just take out my needle and thread!
The kit contains a right hand adjustable palm, wax, 1 oz 5-ply hand sewing twine, waterproof tube of (10) Wm & Smith Sailmaker needles. #1376.

In addition to my sail repair kit I purchased a book on sail repairs. With the aid of this book you can repair your own sails at sea and at home. Copied from Sailrite website; There is a full treatment of hand stitching techniques and a section on the use of a home sewing machine including proper adjustment and tips for sewing heavy sail cloth. Procedures discussed include, in addition to sail patching and repair, methods for correcting draft and seaming flaws, sail cleaning and size modifications. All instructions are step by-step with numerous illustrations. #36302 /
Add spare sail slides, jib hanks, grommets and sail cloth.
You can buy the kit from Sailrite $39.95 Ea. And the book for $11.95

Other items;
Steering: self-steering, ≈ 40,000 miles by hand would be a killer. You could go with an auto-pilot with a back-up unit, or a vane system. You could also steer with twin headsails. Many sailors have sailed days on end with this system in the trade winds. John Letcher Solo sailed his 20 Island Girl from California to Hawaii and then sailed back to Sitka, Alaska using the sheet to helm self steering system. Include a floating trip line

Collision avoidance; Radar Reflector, Radar alarm, Masthead strobe light (turn on only when needed). Powerful handheld floodlight, this can be used to flood the main sail making the small boat more visible when needed.

Storm trysail, storm jib and a riding sail. You could add a loose-footed staysail

Spare blocks, Ed Lormand reported on his 1977 solo Atlantic eastbound crossing to England aboard his 28 FG sloop Folly that he had 4 blocks fail. He had packed 6 spares.

Rigging spare kit, mine includes; galv clamps, thimbles and rigging cable stored in a small plastic parts box (not the cable)
The list could go on

One more item Dave Martin bought a used Cal 25 and sailed 10,000 miles from Seattle to New York via the Panama Canal. He had problems with flexing in the hull, which tore the bulkheads Loose . So he made some major repairs. He then proceeded to sail around the world for seven years , logging over 45,000 miles with no further problems.

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. -William A. Ward

Graham Carr

Flax you certainly sound accomplished but seriously-- How can you sail around the world and not expect to encounter big waves?

Weather forecasting helps tremendously but when you're in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific, how do you completely avoid a storm which may change direction?

You can only change course and sail so many miles in a given time frame.

Madmike's river and coast hugging technique sounds more practical.

More power to you and keep us posted from out there!

Rolf

I would think:
You need to choose somewhere between those who will plan and build till there is no time to sail , or the boat would actually sink under all the weight.. . and those who might build a boat in an Apartment and just hope they can make it . . . Never the two shall agree I might add . But I remind you all of a thread that is here on this board about what would be needed to sail on a large inland lake or a sail to the Bahama's. Some. . a few had list that sounded more like the preparation for a Trans-Atlantic Crossing.They BTW have yet to make their trip and now no doubt never will. Everything has its limits but there are always those capable of taking those "things" beyond what other's thought capable . Good Luck. . . Fair Winds. . . and Safety is my wish for you.. Adventurer !