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New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:16 am
by vkmaynard
The new 2010 Suzuki DF90A on our 26X is a big success. It still needs a little tweak on the Solas Amita 4 13.75 x 15 prop. This boat now accomplishes everything we want. It does not need any more power. Handles great. The X feels like it was designed for this motor.
The new 90 cowling is small enough that we can get around it (does not hit the seatack), it weighs only 20 lbs more the ETec90, it's super quite (I'll post a video later) and the fuel efficiency is 37% better at cruise than the previous DF90. The 2008- DF90 weighs 80 lbs more.
Yesterday on a fairly calm evening our boat topped out at 30.3 @ 5900 RPM (max RPM possible is 6300) with everything on the boat including AC, 18 gals fuel, and the mast down. With full ballast we hit 23.3 @ 5250 RPM. The motor is not fully broken in yet.
We tried the Solas Amita 4 13.25 x 13 prop. Super weak. The engine over revved for a second with no ballast, top speed 25.6 @ 6300 RPM and 22.4 @ 6200 RPM with full ballast. There is a significant difference in the prop design between the two Amita 4 models. The 13.75 x 15 has a higher aspect ratio looking prop vs the 13.25 x 13.
Since there are really no other prop options I am sending the 13.75 x 15 Amita 4 to a shop to remove 1” of pitch. That should max out the RPMs at 6100ish empty and 5500ish with ballast.
We added the Billy (XX) 3/8” reinforcement bars (2.5” wide inside and 4” wide outside from
http://www.speedymetals.com need 36” each width).
Beware of the Solas/Rubex fit chart. The RBX125 hub does not fit the DF90A. In fact their information on this motor is very inaccurate. We basically ordered three different setups (Solas and Rubex) that did not work.
Victor
Note "sexy" throttle and inside reinforcement plate (bottom inside also has one).
30.3 MPH mark on camera:( Oops automotive mode.
Motor Plates
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:04 pm
by beene
Awesome!
Very happy for you.
Thanks for posting the info and the pics to boot.
Zoom zoom
G
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:19 pm
by DaveB
Excellent report Victor!
I assume you are stateing MPH not Knots, Would be great if you posted fuel consumption later on at diffrent speeds.
Looks like the 90 is not that larger than the 50 Honda for boarding with stock swim ladder on the MacX.
Even at 23 mph with full ballist is excellent as the boat gets on full plane at 18-20mph.
One should run 3/4 throttle to cruise on plane with good fuel milage.
I know that my Bow is down at least 2 inches than Stern when no one is in the boat but probably is level when 450 lbs Persons are in cockpit so adding another 100 lbs for motor probably work out.
Dave
vkmaynard wrote:The new 2010 Suzuki DF90A on our 26X is a big success. It still needs a little tweak on the Solas Amita 4 13.75 x 15 prop. This boat now accomplishes everything we want. It does not need any more power. Handles great. The X feels like it was designed for this motor.
Even at 23 mph with full ballist is excellent as the boat gets on full plane at 18-20mph.
One should run 3/4 throttle to cruise on plane with good fuel milage.
Dave
The new 90 cowling is small enough that we can get around it (does not hit the seatack), it weighs only 20 lbs more the ETec90, it's super quite (I'll post a video later) and the fuel efficiency is 37% better at cruise than the previous DF90. The 2008- DF90 weighs 80 lbs more.
Yesterday on a fairly calm evening the our boat topped out at 30.3 @ 5900 RPM (max RPM possible is 6300) with everything on the boat including AC, 18 gals fuel, and the mast down. With full ballast we hit 23.3 @ 5250 RPM. The motor is not fully broken in yet.
We tried the Solas Amita 4 13.25 x 13 prop. Super weak. The engine over revved for a second with no ballast, top speed 25.6 @ 6300 RPM and 22.4 @ 6200 RPM with full ballast. There is a significant difference in the prop design between the two Amita 4 models. The 13.75 x 15 has a higher aspect ratio looking prop vs the 13.25 x 13.
Since there are really no other prop options I am sending the 13.75 x 15 Amita 4 to a shop to remove 1” of pitch. That should max out the RPMs at 6100ish empty and 5500ish with ballast.
We added the Billy (XX) 3/8” reinforcement bars (2.5” wide inside and 4” wide outside from
http://www.speedymetals.com need 36” each width).
Beware of the Solas/Rubex fit chart. The RBX125 hub does not fit the DF90A. In fact their information on this motor is very inaccurate. We basically ordered three different setups (Solas and Rubex) that did not work.
Victor
Note "sexy" throttle and inside reinforcement plate (bottom inside also has one).
Missed the 30.3 mark on camera:(
Motor Plates
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:36 pm
by uanhanlouee
Propgods in Florida is good at helping determine which prop does best for any boat. Max speed and economy.
Google it.
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:31 pm
by Rick Westlake
Have you considered a ProPulse adjustable-pitch prop?
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:09 pm
by vkmaynard
Rick Westlake wrote:Have you considered a ProPulse adjustable-pitch prop?
Yes, but their min pitch is 15".
I would really like to give major credit on this project to Billy (XX) for pioneering this install. His Suzuki 140 2001 install on his X has had
NO problems (including motor failures with all those messy moving parts accroding to BRP). So regardless of all the dire warnings, we proceeded into charted waters. My only touch was to install a lighter smaller 2010 DF90A, a new "sexy" internal mount throttle with better ergonomics and a 4 blade prop. I am working on talking him into these changes but he is really stubborn
In the next few weeks I am going to move our dual batteries forward to balance out the boat and quit modding for this season, I promise. I don't want to end up like Erik Hardtle
Now we are ready for wakeboarding Macgregor style (grill, cabin, AC).
Victor
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:29 pm
by ROAD Soldier
Well Vic I guess if you all come up to the Chesapeake again I will not be holding back to moter side by side up wind with you any more. Oh well I can still beat Erik.
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:44 pm
by vkmaynard
We'll be there this June.
Have you tried your Billy AC mod yet? You need to harass him about the rear window.
Victor
Re: Short Video
Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:15 pm
by vkmaynard
Uploaded initial test video to YouTube
You will hear how quite the motor is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKgqweVZVQ
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:42 am
by Stefan
I'd like to find out what's the cost for the re-pitching that you might and up doing. I discovered that this option is not available for me locally, I even talked to some store managers in Moscow and St.Petersburg, Russia, everyone tells me that they have not even heard of such thing, re-pitching an aluminum prop.
I consider using your experience, will probably look for a store to order it in the US and ask them to re-pitch before they ship it to me.
I even thought about buying a SS 4 blade prop, this 4453-133-15 and this one 4453-135-13 by Solas seem to have better dimensions without re-pitching, but the closer look at the descriptions seem to state that these props are only for 2-stroke engines by Suzuki, with 13 splines. Would you be able to help me out with info on that.
Thanks,
Sergei
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:58 am
by vkmaynard
I was warned by Solas to keep the diameter (13.75) on the DF90A. They were correct. The 13.25 diameter prop looks some what like a "toy" compared to the 13.75 and has a really terrible “feel” on this motor (gutless). You would have to look at them side-by-side to understand.
Repitching aluminum props is a standard practice, especially when they get fixed after damage. Blue Ridge Propeller Repair (Jason Spence-Owner 276-340-1597 or 276-629-2274 email:
[email protected]) said that he was not surprised that there was a 200 RPM difference between the exact same model props. When he takes out the 1"of pitch, he will do that "relative" to what he measures on the current prop the adjust using shims if necessary. He is only charging $30 for the job. 1/2 price of others.
I will gladly help you do the same from here. Can you get you hands on a Solas 3413-138-15 (13.75 x 15 Amita 4)? If so you can then figure out what to do next. Three blades is not the way to go with on a Macgregor in my opinion (or the opinion of Solas or our local dealer Chatlee Boats, NC or Blue Ridge Props). The boat is more like a barge that a speed boat.
Blue Ridge does work for Chatlee and others in our area. I have not see Jason's work yet so stay tuned for next week's test.
Victor
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:18 am
by Bobby T.-26X #4767
vkmaynard wrote:Three blades is not the way to go with on a Macgregor in my opinion (or the opinion of Solas or our local dealer Chatlee Boats, NC or Blue Ridge Props). The boat is more like a barge than a speed boat. Victor
i agree with your assessment about what a Mac is...
"The boat is more like a barge than a speed boat".
in fact, it has been referred as a "Waterbago" many times on this site.
the goal is to prop your Mac so that it runs in the required RPM range.
that said, i believe a Mac should be propped like it's pushing a barge.
hence, the "pontoon" prop.
one that has very large "dog-ears" w/ a lot of surface area to push the water.
with this prop (14" x 11 pitch), my X runs within the required RPM range and still gets to 26-28 mph.
i've been able to get to 31+mph with a 14.25" x 15 pitch, however the RPM's stay dangerously low (45-4800) which is bad for the motor.
Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki
Re: Short Video
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:32 am
by FLembo18
Vic, good luck with your NEW motor ! Watched your video and saw that lil s.o.b. kick a$S on the lake. So quiet at idle too.
Looks like you're in for a great boating/sailing season.
Frank L.
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:57 am
by bscott
Concerning the Hydrus, it was recommended to me as well as Macs act like a pontoon in weight and freeboard. However, each boat is loaded differently and proping can become difficult if you are trying to obtain a more narrow rpm range, say 5,500/5,700 rather than the 5,000/6,000 max.
I have a Hydrus 14/9 prop on my E-tec 60 that cannot get me beyond 5,000 rpm (8,000' altitude). Our local prop shop explained to me that the Hydrus was designed for pontoon boats which when run at high speeds, lift the stern and cause the blades to aerate as they approach the surface, thus producing less thrust at speed. The Hydrus was designed to reduce aeration. They found the Hydrus to be at least 300 rpm lower per given pitch than a standard prop.
So, if you are not getting the rpms you need and you are running a Hydrus, try a stock prop. If you are over proped try a Hydrus. Hopefully you can find a prop shop that will let you experiment.
Bob
Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!
Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:00 pm
by Stefan
well, I can order this prop (Solas 3413-138-15) from a few web-sites delivered to the prop shop in order to do the re-pitching, I just need to get the confirmation that they would ship it to Russia afterwards. I'll call them on monday. I just think that I could use a 2' decrease in the pitching. First of all a
is harder to push then an
, and as I mentioned earlier, with the stock 14x13 I was getting only 5200rpm max(loaded 6 people) and 5500rpm with 2 onboard. As I understand, 4 blade same pitch would have less rpm then 3 blade, the diameter change for 0.25' would probably have little effect. So, after all I don't even know if I'd get better rpm with a repitched 13.75x13 4 blades. Although the difference in the prop brand might come into play?! Solas vs Suzuki prop.