Electric Propulsion for the Kera Jane....

[Sumner]

Back in 2011 when we took our Florida long trip the plans were to then take the Mac up to Conn. and leave her with my sister and her family for a couple months and go back in the summer and do Long Island Sound and up the Hudson and across the Erie Canal. Ruth really looked forward to the Erie Canal part. Well instead of that we bought the Endeavour and took the Mac home and parked her in the back yard. If there was one thing I'd would of done different looking back was we shouldn't of bought the Endeavour. Living 2200 miles away from your boat, at least in our case, doesn't make sense.

We enjoyed our trips to Florida and even working on the Endeavour and if Ruth was still with us I think it would of worked out to of been a great boat for us and we were almost ready to put her back in the water. That didn't happen and I regret the time we could of spent back exploring new places with the Mac.

Well I'm going to have to move on and feel going back to the Mac is the best thing for me. Much easier to single hand, can go places a big boat can't go and most of the same places we would of taken the bigger boat. Now into my 70's I have to start getting realistic about what I can and can't do so want to outfit the boat in a way that I can use her by myself.

I just ordered and received a Raymarine ST2000 Tiller Pilot that I'll install on the boat and that will help a lot. I can even connect it to the computer running OpenCPN and have it follow a course with different waypoints.

I'd also still like to do the NE trip and the Erie Canal and for it and also to be used other times I'm installing a Minn Kota Riptide 80 transom mount trolling motor. It is going to be interesting to see how this works. This is their saltwater 80 lb thrust motor rated for boats up to 4000# and 25 feet in length. I talked to a factory rep and he felt that on 1/2 throttle or less that it should move the Mac at about 3 kt. This will not be the primary propulsion as I'll still have the Tohatsu 9.8 HP for anything other than calm conditions.

I'm hoping, we will see, that I might be able to motor 4-5 hours a day in calm conditions or say on the Erie. To do this I need to top off the batteries of course. I just received six 60 watt solar panels. I'm going to replace the Bimini with 4 of the panels. They will provide shade and power. The 2 additional panels will hinge off the other 4 along the lifelines on each side. Hinge down when not needed or during docking. The 4 center panels will also be able to hinge down above the lifelines for those times I want to have an open cockpit or to put the bug screen up at night.

The motor is 24 volts so 2 sets of panels will be wired in series and run to a 24 volt MorningStar MPPT controller and on to two 12 volt group 27 deep charge batteries in series also. The other two 60 watt panels will be wired in a way that they can either go to the 12 volt MPPT controller that charges the house bank batteries (changing these to two 6 volt batteries in series) or to the 24 volt controller connected to the trolling motor batteries. This will either up the current 200 watt house bank solar array to 320 watts or will give 360 watts total to the trolling motor batteries (still leaving 200 watts for the house batteries).

On a good sun day the 360 watts going to the trolling motor should power it at low to medium speeds as long as their is sun. At least on paper that might work. I received the motor, MPPt controller and a lot of aluminum over the last couple days and have started on the project and will post more here and of course on my site.

Here is a preview...



I constructed a battery box, yet to be stained and sealed, for 2 batteries for the trolling motor.



It will mount under the companionway next to the 12 volt fridge.



I got the motor in 2 days ago and in an hour mocked up a mounting location for it. This will be replaced by a much smaller mount right where the motor is in order to keep the ladder access free. I mocked up the rudder to make sure that it would clear it.

continued in next post........

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

continued....



When not in use the motor will be raised vertically. It has the option of tilting but due to the top ladder rung that is not going to happen. It does raise easily by just loosening a quick release collar and lifting the motor up.



On the water the ladder is usually in this position as the dinghy is pulled up to it for towing and also used to board the dinghy. The trolling motor will not interfere with this where it will be mounted.



Also there should be no problems storing the motor in the up position.

No guarantees that this will all work as planned, but I think that possibly having the option of cruising across glass like water on still days with very little noise might be worth the challenge. Also If I get to do the Erie in Ruth's honor it would be much nicer doing it without running the outboard the whole time.

I hope to finish this and other mods in the next 30-45 days so I can take the Mac back to Florida with me. I'll go and finish up the jobs on the Endeavour and hopefully sell her and take off with the Mac on some trips. As soon as the Endeavour is ready I will put the Mac in the water and hang around the west coast where I'll be able to show the Endeavour in the yard as needed,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Seapup]

Great to see you are back working with the mac again, sounds like you have some awesome plans! I really look forward to reading your posts.

I have been looking to do the same thing and actually have my trolling motor in the truck to mount tonight... wish I had waited for your testing now I am also looking for a way to motor the canals silently.

You already have a 24v plan, but I was thinking of going with a trollbridge 24, it automatically links the batteries in series when the motor kicks on and back to parallel when it kicks off, so you can basically leave a 12v system intact.

http://www.yandina.com/troll24info.htm

[Sumner]

Great to see you are back working with the mac again, sounds like you have some awesome plans! I really look forward to reading your posts.

I have been looking to do the same thing and actually have my trolling motor in the truck to mount tonight... wish I had waited for your testing now I am also looking for a way to motor the canals silently.

You already have a 24v plan, but I was thinking of going with a trollbridge 24, it automatically links the batteries in series when the motor kicks on and back to parallel when it kicks off, so you can basically leave a 12v system intact.

http://www.yandina.com/troll24info.htm

Thanks I'll look into that. I have the 24 volt controller/charger, but I'd like to have a way to charge the two batteries with ....



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-13.html

...my 12 volt gen-set and that might be an option or give me ideas. With the 60 amp gen-set I could always give those batteries a quick charge regardless of sun conditions. Just one more option.

We only used it 3-4 hours total in Florida when we were out for the 7+ weeks and had 180 watts on the house bank. Now with 200 full time and the option of another 120 watts at times I don't anticipate using the gen-set much at all if ever but will keep it for sure,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[walt]

Sumner, its good hear hear your picking up the pieces... Ruth was a dear sweet lady..

I really like what you are trying with the electric motor and getting the Mac going again.

What you are planning should work well. I think you also have a 2000 watt generator and there are some nice things about using something like this along with a smart battery charger.

First is that you dont need the gas charge source right next to the battery. You still need to put the AC to DC battery charger right next to the battery but that is usually a lot easier than than putting the gas generator near the battery. Also, the power run between the gas charger and the battery is a lot easier at 110VAC vs 24 volts (for the same wire guage, the wire power loss is over 20 times smaller at 110VAC vs 24 V).

The problem is that your 2000 watt Genset is in theory capable of something like 70 - 80 amps when converted to 24 volts. If you price battery chargers at 24 volts and that sort of current - very expensive.

The idea I wanted to throw out is that I dont think there is any good reason that you could not parrellel say six 10 amp 24 volt chargers for 60 amp total capacity such as this one http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... id=2105251 Still expensive..

You may have already seen this on the trailer sailer forum but Nelson Amen used something similar (but not a good way to charge the batteries like you are planning) and he had measrued some speeds. I cant remember what these were.. maybe around 4 knots???

[Russ]

Hey Sumner,

Looks like an interesting project. I know you have done the solar math and can make this work. The idea of running virtually silent is intriguing. Would love to see the solar array when complete.

Is there a way to beef up the alternator on your outboard? Seems like if you are running it often, it would be nice to tap some juice out of it.

No doubt boating will be different without Ruth. I like the "in her honor" cruising. What a great way to keep her memory.

--Russ

[Russ]

You already have a 24v plan, but I was thinking of going with a trollbridge 24, it automatically links the batteries in series when the motor kicks on and back to parallel when it kicks off, so you can basically leave a 12v system intact.

http://www.yandina.com/troll24info.htm

That's an interesting device. My Edgestar fridge will run on 24v and I wonder if it would run better on 24 volts. It seems to strain to start the compressor at 12v.

[Sumner]

....Is there a way to beef up the alternator on your outboard? Seems like if you are running it often, it would be nice to tap some juice out of it....--Russ

I'm hoping to run it much less. We often motored when we might of been able to sail, so I want to do that much more and hopefully. If the conditions are right, no high winds or waves, then hope to use the trolling motor.

Ruth was a non-swimmer and I was so lucky to have her supported the overall experience so I didn't push the sailing (heeling) and/or being out in adverse conditions, favoring anchoring more during those times. I hope to push things a little harder and also learn more in the process.

I'll have a total of 560 watts of solar now between the two arrays so that ought to work to great advantage. Before we didn't really need the outboard output with the 180 watts of solar we did have for the house bank (now 200 to 320) so I'll leave the outboard stock ,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

..I think you also have a 2000 watt generator and there are some nice things about using something like this along with a smart battery charger.............

Thanks for the input Walt. I have a Honda 2000 that we bought for the Endeavour but that won't be going out on the Mac. I didn't really like moving it weight wise from below deck to up on deck on the Endeavour when we did use it that one trip.

I will still have the 12 volt gen-set I made that is 60 amps. I called Yandina about the Trollbridge24 and they and I don't see an easy way to use it since I'm using a 24 volt solar charge controller with sets of 12 volt panels in series for 24 volts from each set (3 sets of them in parallel). I could use it if I used the controller in the 12 volt mode which would be possible with the six 12 volt panels but it is only rated at 200 watts that way so I could only use 3 panels. In the 24 volt mode it is rated at 400 watts so I can use all 6 panels. With 360 watts to charge the trolling motor batteries I don't think I'll need an alternative charging source for them as I don't have to use the trolling motor with the sails and the outboard available.

I could still charge those two batteries fairly simply with the 12 volt gen-set by putting a disconnect switch in the cable between the batteries that puts them in series and charge them separately (or in parallel) and might look into doing that,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[walt]

You could probably silenty electric motor sail all day under solar power if your trying to get somewhere. I think that is a great experiment..

My outboard charger seems to cut back on charging a little early voltage wise and Ive wondered part of the reason is that its so far from my batteries (mine are as far forward under the V birth as I could possibly get them).. Your 12 volt gen is a lot closer to where you have the batteries maybe you wont have any issue.

[Russ]

Wow, 560 watts. If I do my math correct, that's 46 amps of power at 12v or 23 amps at 24v.
That's a lot of power. Of course only when the sun is perpendicular and not obscured, yet it's still an impressive amount of power from the sun.

That trolling motor claims 44 amp draw. I guess that means you can run it 1/2 the time the sun is shining. Not bad. Can't wait to see how this works out. Should be in a boating magazine or something.

You could possibly run it off your genset. That's how the ships do it. Electric props driven by massive generators. I seem to recall Duanne Dunn doinng some experimentation with electric motors on his rudders. Charged it with a genset. Forum search fails me (I never could make it work).

Keep us posted. Very interesting.

[Sumner]

Wow, 560 watts. If I do my math correct, that's 46 amps of power at 12v or 23 amps at 24v.
That's a lot of power. Of course only when the sun is perpendicular and not obscured, yet it's still an impressive amount of power from the sun.....

Yep I'll never get the full 560 watts of power the panels are potentially capable of. To be realistic I use a little formula I came up with that has seemed to be pretty accurate compared to what we have gotten in the past in amp/hrs. per day.

It is (((Panel wattage)/12)/2) * 6 (hr) = daily amp/hrs for a 12 volt battery bank (replace the 12 and divide by 24 for a 24 volt bank). So for 560 watts that would come out to 140 amp/hrs. per day. That is a very conservative number but seemed to work for our usage for days on time without recharging from a shore source. If one starts with full batteries and is out 3-4 days and doesn't mind coming back with batteries at 50% then things are different.

I'll have 560 total between 2 different arrays, one that is charging the 12 volt house bank and the other charging the 24 volt trolling motor bank. The house bank will be a minimum of 200 watts plus up to 120 watts more from 2 60 watt panels that can be switched between arrays. The solar array will be a minimum of 240 watts plus up to 120 watts more with the 2 60 watt panels that can be switched between arrays.

Realistically I think the 360 watts available to the trolling motor bank will be able to give up to 45 amp/hrs. a day for the 24 v. bank. So that would be 1 hour running wide open but 2 hours at medium speed and 8 hours at low speed. Talking to the tech he felt that 10 amps would give a boat speed of 2-3 mph. So 4 hours of run time would be 8 to 12 miles. I'd be very happy with that. Time will tell what really happens. The motor is an 80# thrust model. Most people I've seen have used 35# or 55# motors. The higher thrust is suppose to me more efficient. I would of gone with the 110# but it is 36 volts and that would of been a problem charging and running at the same time off the solar array. The prop on the RipTide 80 is actually larger in diameter than the one on the 9.8 Tohatsu, but only 2 blades and not near the pitch.

I'm not looking for this to be the main propulsion just something to use when it works,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

As usual, you have done the math and worked this out well.

Would be cool to travel 8-12 miles on the sun. Of course, sailing also uses the sun for power. I guess that's the fun of sailing isn't it. Naturally powering our vessels without noise or exhaust This is an extension of that using more technology than a piece of fabric in the wind.

--Russ

[133bhp]

Is it worth the the hassle? with just a Suzuki 2.5 on the back, just off idle, so very quiet, pushes my X @ 2 .2knts.

half throttle for 4,5knts which is max. I went ten miles down an estuary @ 3.5knts, for just 0,5 litre.

[Russ]

Is it worth the the hassle? with just a Suzuki 2.5 on the back, just off idle, so very quiet, pushes my X @ 2 .2knts.

half throttle for 4,5knts which is max. I went ten miles down an estuary @ 3.5knts, for just 0,5 litre.

Does it really push your boat at 2.2 knots at idle?
I've got the Suzuki 2.5 for my dinghy. The thing is noisy. Needs more than idle to push it.