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genoa track slides for ladder?

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.

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genoa track slides for ladder?

Postby RichardB » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:26 pm

I'm trying to duplicate the ladder mods by Scott Vos and Bruces Ranes, it seems the ideal ladder solution for diving. WM has the ladder, but am having a devil of a time finding the slides to attach the ladder to the Genoa tracks. Scott found the sliders at a local marine surplus. Does anyone know who makes these and where I can order them? I've been searching for some time with no luck.

thanks,
Richard
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Postby rvdav » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:11 pm

I've been looking as well for the genoa track fittings and like you have run into a dead end. Someone said BWY sells a genoa track ladder, I've emailed them but haven't gotten a reply yet.
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Postby James V » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:07 am

There is no backing plate (per my understanding) on the genoa track and it may pull out if enough weight is applied.
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Postby RichardB » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:49 pm

I had first asked about the BWY ladder in another thread, Terry gave a full description of it and I've pasted his comments below. As it turns out the BWY ladder is for use with low docks (even at low tide most docks here are still at least 2' above water), and not really a swim ladder since the first step doesn't reach the water. I've asked Cheryl at BWY if they would sell just the Genoa cars but so far they have declined.

James, with this setup the force applied to the tracks should be somewhere between straight down and horizontal, not sure how a backing plate would come into play. Please let me know if I'm wrong, I don't want to screw anything up.

Terry, I would be interested in a close look at the ladder so I'll PM my email address to you. Perhaps a mod to extend the ladder is the ticket. But, I really like the look of Scott Vos's ladder posted in his mod.

thanks,
Richard

Response from Terry copied from other thread
Hi Richard,
Yes I have noticed it is not listed, but they do have it and sell it. Funny thing is I saw a manufacturers sticker on the underside and see it is made here in Vernon, B.C. and shipped to BWY where they put the genoa cars on it. It now retails for $250.00 but was $150.00 when I bought it two years ago. It is solid SS with heavy plastic steps and holds my 220# easily. My wife insisted on it for her short legs while at the slip. It would easily hold you with scuba gear but I am not sure it extends down low enough to the water level to reach, it only has two steps and extends maybe a foot below the rub rail, perhaps if you got a short extension for it. It is great for side entry at the docks but I don't see it being a swim ladder.

On Edit: OK curiosity won, I went out to the garage and retrieved it, it is definitely heavy duty. The top step is SS tubing with two round plates welded on it to bolt the hard thick plastic step on. The bottom plastic non-skid step is bolted onto a 3" X 14" SS plate that is welded to the side SS tubes. Now, there is 1.25 inches of exposed SS plate on each side of the plastic step where one could drill a couple holes for attaching a removeable extension, I say removeable because you want the ladder to do double duty both as a slip ladder and swim ladder when diving. Alternatively perhaps BWY would sell just the cars with quick pins, one is taller than the other to keep the ladder paralllel while mounted on the not so parallel track. They may or may not be compatible with a WM ladder. I can send you a pic with an e-mail address but I don't do pics here, too onerous.
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Postby Catigale » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:24 pm

I think the concern on the genny track is if the design of the ladder is such that the weight is not transferred fully downwards to the cockpit coaming, then it will be trying to twist the genny track off the coaming.

The genny sheet force is mostly trying to lift the genny track off the coaming back to front. I doubt a genny sheet has less force than the weight of a person on a ladder - also the force from a ladder has much less lever arm over which to act (width of the track vs the length) - should be ok..
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Postby James V » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:14 pm

I would trust Catigale view as he is more into this line than I am. I am 265 pounds and I tend to be very careful about such things.

I did buy one of the rope ladders from WM and found it not to work. A stiff stand off ladder is needed. I was thinking about getting one and put the brackets on the hull. However I have found that the stern ladder works well enough after I put the line on the mast support so my hand will not slip.
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Postby Catigale » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:50 am

James - I have the two step rope ladder and use it attached to a stanchion base ...its ok in reasonable conditions for climbing up/down into the tender. Im 225#, 210# in soccer season :)

I do much prefer the 3 step ladder on the transom of course.
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Postby RichardB » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:33 am

Ok, here's why I'm a bit impatient to get the side boarding ladder. I had just picked up a friend at a leeward dock and was backing away from the dock when the engine came to a sudden stop and would not restart. The north wind was blowing me towards the concrete wall at north side of Phil Foster park so I barely had time to jump in the shallow (luckily) water with a dock line and stop her. Someone came along in a dinghy to help and we handed him my lunch hook to drop and allow me to inspect what happened to the motor. I had been using a rope/clam cleat for raising/lowering the ladder and this rope had come uncaptured, dropped in the water and wrapped around the ladder pulling it towards the prop, actually bending the ladder a few degrees somewhat in the process. I cut the rope away and was able to start the motor and take off, but now I think the brackets are a small leak source as they are a bit loose and I have noticed a tiny amount of water in the bilge that was previously bone dry. I have yet to inspect/repair that. Anyhow, I do a lot of snorkeling and want to start adding a one tank scuba dive to my weekend sailing trips. I've done a few already but the stern ladder is a bit difficult.
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Postby RichardB » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:38 am

James, I bought the WM rope ladder as well. Looks good in theory but pretty crappy in practice. You have to tie small fenders onto it to get the space off the hull you mentioned, but even then it's difficult especially in swells. -richard
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Postby James V » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:21 pm

I know what you mean. With the rope ladder hanging below the boat, it does swing under the boat when boarding making it hard so I use the stern ladder. I did try the fenders. It would make it hard to board with scuba tanks on.

Please post the mods.
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Postby Terry » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:38 pm

James V wrote:There is no backing plate (per my understanding) on the genoa track and it may pull out if enough weight is applied.

One of these days I am going to look under there and see for myself, all this talk of reinforcement requirements boggles my mind. I just recently installed a pulley at the forward end of each jib track and a very heavy padeye/eyestrap on the forward stantion base for my halyards aft. Here is what I saw while under there. Those bolts in the top side of the track may not look like much but from the underside they look honkin big and carry big honkin washers with big nuts to hold them in place, ditto on the starboard stantion base. The port track was also well reinforced but for some strange reason someone forgot the washers on the port stantion base so I had to install them. I was using the same holes with longer bolts anyway for the padeyes and had larger washers to install so I didn't have to run to the store but I was concerned with the shoddy work on that stantion, just the four big nuts, no washers, it has washers now. I think it is safe to assume the genoa tracks have the same honkin big reinforcements despite the port forward stantion factory inadequecy I discovered. I still am tempted to check under every one of those little caps now and likely won't sleep sound until I do. But for what it is worth what I have seen of the jib tracks gives me great peace of mind that nothing is going to rip those suckers out. 8)
Not even the force on my portable cleats I use on the tracks will either! :P
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Postby Catigale » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:44 pm

Thanks Terry - now I have to go check mine this weekend too...

:o :o :o :?
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Postby Moe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:39 pm

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Postby RichardB » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:45 pm

Moe,

Now that Foldaway ladder is the Rolls Royce of boarding ladders I would say. Throw in the handle & track kit you are just shy of a boat buck, but defintely a very nice ladder. I especially like the way it folds up and can be tied to the lifeline.

One other thing about mounting a ladder on the genoa tracks is dealing with the approximately 2.5" of rise over the 15" span between rails. My initial idea was to use the WM 5 or 6 step ladder and figure out some way to attach a 2.5" extension to the high side where it attaches to the track car. 'course that was assuming I could find the track cars/slides with the quick connect pins.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... 01/32/31/5

The other option is Terry's idea to get the BWY dock ladder (with the elusive genoa cars) and extend it's reach when needed for swim duty. That appears to be where I'm heading at this point.

richard
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Postby Catigale » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:05 am

Richard - it looks like the Mystic link will sell you track cars in various configs - maybe you could buy their cars adapt them to the WM ladder for a reasonable priced solution??
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