Planing Speed and Stability

For MacGregor/Venture owners in Australia and discussions about country-specific sailing-related topics.

Moderators: kmclemore, beene, NiceAft, Catigale, Hamin' X

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Webb
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:41 pm
Sailboat: Tattoo 26
Location: Blue Mountains Australia

Planing Speed and Stability

Post by Webb » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:17 pm

Hi ... Merry Christmas to all.

I have taken my :tat26: out several times in the Hawkesbury-Broken Bay System to get a feel for how it goes. Haven't had it up and planing yet but it it gets to about 10knots at 5,000+ rpm with the Suzuki 60. Even with the ballast full it seems to really roll uncomfortably when crossing the wake of passing boats. Were going to head around to Pittwater one trip but the admiral got nervous about even the gentle rollers coming in and the rolling movement of the boat. All the under-power videos I've seen show it planing on glass like water and yet forums talk about powering to get away from foul weather.

So do I just open the transom valve/breather and just go for it ? Do they perhaps roll less up and planing over the top of the water ? Any tips on the first time appreciated (apart from leaving the boss at home).

Webb

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NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Planing Speed and Stability

Post by NiceAft » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:27 pm

If the :tat26: is anything like an :macx: or an :macm: , when a wake hits you broadside, it's a very uncomfortable ride. Learn to steer into the wake. Emptying the ballast is not advised, all-tho many members don't fill the ballast when motoring.

I have a 50hp Honda 4 stroke on my 2005 :macm: . The only time it gets up on plane is when the boat is totally empty, and no crew. Truly, don't be concerned about planing. Go out and enjoy the water.

This is what I am seeing here on the east coast of the U.S.,
Image

so post photos of you on the water, and let us live vicariously through you :D

P.S. The most I have ever gotten Nice Aft up to is about 16.5 knots, and again, that was empty and no crew.
Ray ~~_/)~~

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Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Planing Speed and Stability

Post by Jimmyt » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:00 pm

Webb wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:17 pm
Hi ... Merry Christmas to all.

I have taken my :tat26: out several times in the Hawkesbury-Broken Bay System to get a feel for how it goes. Haven't had it up and planing yet but it it gets to about 10knots at 5,000+ rpm with the Suzuki 60. Even with the ballast full it seems to really roll uncomfortably when crossing the wake of passing boats. Were going to head around to Pittwater one trip but the admiral got nervous about even the gentle rollers coming in and the rolling movement of the boat. All the under-power videos I've seen show it planing on glass like water and yet forums talk about powering to get away from foul weather.

So do I just open the transom valve/breather and just go for it ? Do they perhaps roll less up and planing over the top of the water ? Any tips on the first time appreciated (apart from leaving the boss at home).

Webb
Yes, it gets better when planing.

I have the 26M which is very close to your boat design. I have been boating since I was knee-high to an unmarried grasshopper. The M boat is well behaved idling along or planing. However, there is a speed in the middle where it waddles like a duck. So, if I feel it getting wobbly, I drop the hammer and go, or slow down.

i would advise you to leave the ballast in until you are comfortable with the boat. Doesn't sound like you're there yet.

These boats are a hybrid between sail and power. The hull, while able to plane, is not a true power boat hull. It behaves a bit like a sailboat when powering, which can be a bit unsettling in certain conditions.

What type of seas are you contemplating planing in? Try it first in flat water with ballast.

I run about 15 knots ballast in and about 17 knots empty with my Etec 60 wide open. At these speeds the boat is pretty well behaved. Sails down and secured, rudders and dagger board fully up. Crew under max weight and seated in cockpit. No one on deck.

Take it easy, get comfortable with your boat. They are great boats, but take a bit of getting used to.

And Merry Christmas to you!
Last edited by Jimmyt on Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

Webb
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:41 pm
Sailboat: Tattoo 26
Location: Blue Mountains Australia

Re: Planing Speed and Stability

Post by Webb » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:25 pm

Hi Gents,

Thank you both for taking the time to reply esp at this time of year.

Yes ... like Bing ..we can only dream of your PA Christmas ... guessing that's the same case in Mobile ?

Broken Bay is about 50kms north of Sydney Harbour and for much it of ... looks pretty much the same as it would if Captain Cook would have sailed in 250years ago. The when approaching the entrance to BB you get the ocean swell rolling in same as Sydney Harbour ... both deep water so there is no bar as such. Of course this is generally only a taste of what you would get "outside" on the open ocean. So we found that pretty much meeting the swell (say 2-3') head on we had enough pitch to make the admiral uncomfortable and turning around in it threw us around a bit and certainly waddled and surfed with it from behind enough so that we didn't feel in control.

I suspect that we may have been going too slow but I don't have much reference except lots others going harder and some in much smaller boats in the same conditions. I doubt I could get more than 10-12knots WOT with the ballast in ... but given the above I'm a little cautious about letting it out on anything but flat water. Even then some of $6-7 figure boats cruising around make a decent wave in calm waters!

My poor sailing skills made these perfect for me to bail out under power if things got uncomfortable but so far I've been too timid to get it up and moving to understand what it does and doesn't like without going too crazy. I've thought about bringing a sailor or power boatie along but the guy who I got some sailing lessons from advised against that (there can only be 1 captain) and he said even more so with the hybrid handling.

Perhaps I should try to find a friend with a Mac via the forum ?

Thanks for listening anyway

Webb

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Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Planing Speed and Stability

Post by Jimmyt » Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:15 pm

Webb,

Ray lives well north of me. Mobile is on the gulf coast. We usually don't have snow in winter. If it snows here, everything has to shut down. No one can drive in it, so we wind up in massive car pileups if they don't make us stay home (only a slight exaggeration). :D I would die if I lived where Ray does. :|

I absolutely disagree with your advisor. I'd find an experienced boater to go with you. I'd even leave the Admiral at home for the first go of it. She will be more confident when you are more confident. The right person can really help you know how to maneuver in a swell. There is an art to it. Plus, it might help you feel more at ease having an experienced boater with you for a bit.

A hybrid owner would be the best choice if you can find an agreeable one. It is not a pure power boat, so a power boater will have a bit of adjusting (I did). But a larger power boater would be my second choice. It needs to be a nice person, preferably very patient. A pure sail jockey won't be much help for planing advice... So, i wouldn't choose a pure sailboat guy for this.
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

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Neo
Admiral
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:29 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia

Re: Planing Speed and Stability

Post by Neo » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:49 am

Hi Webb,

Sorry I've just caught up with this thread. It sounds like you are local to me. I have motored and sailed Broken Bay a few times (motored with and without a full ballast tank) in my :macm: (which has the same hull as your :tat:) and I can tell you that that's no easy stretch of water as the swell and wind can come from different directions at any moment. And after you've negotiated the channel (and that hair pin bend :? ) there's often an incoming swell (which is effectively a small bar) as the bay starts to narrow. When you get closer to Lion Island the waves get more stable (most days!) and heading for Patonga is often a much smoother ride.

It's funny but the first time I took my wife out into Broken Bay she spilt her red wine over her lap then ordered me to turn around :P .... She gave me that look and said "I don't like it" so we headed back to Brisbane Water :D

Something that might help you is Motoring with upto one foot of dagger board down.,,, Rudders are supposed to be up after 7mph but I've had my rudders down way more than that without damage.

Some things that might need checking...
# Your rudder drop angle, rudders-to-rudder alignment and rudder to motor alignment might be out.
# Your steering might have some slack for some reason (very common).

When set up right your :tat: will do 15knts no problem but must always make sure the ballast is full BEFORE the sails go up .... and that's so so easy to forget. :D
All the best.
:macm: Neo
"Whatever floats ya boat" 8)

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