Outboard help

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.

Moderators: kmclemore, NiceAft, Hamin' X, Catigale, beene

User avatar
BOAT
Admiral
Posts: 4808
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:12 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Oceanside, CA MACMJ213 2013 ETEC60

Re: Outboard help

Post by BOAT » Wed May 06, 2020 9:16 am

kurz wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:54 am
well, the just cheapest ok-instal was to use heat shrink tubing with glue and it would have last a long time. And hang at least the connection high so it gets not in touch with (salt-)water ever...

I like your bunchy-cord solution. What I normally not use is non-ss-metal in the boat. Having rust can really make your boat dirty. But maybe the cheapest was to use plastic hooks.

But to be honest I don't really think that water can penetrate the isolation of a cable? Or can it?

And yes - PLEASE - send photo from your Install Boat :D


By the way, how dit your local store installe the motor wires in the :macm: ? New cables in only 1 piece or did they connect the wires (in a better way...)?
The 'bunchy' cords have not rusted and I will run out there today after lunch to get a picture.

The dealer on 'boat' was Captain Mike Inmon. His people do an 'okay' job on the motor install. They do get all the cables laid in one piece, no splices, with good crimp fittings on the perko but they do indeed lay the wires in the bilge :( and if the wires lay in saltwater for a long period of time the insulation can wick salt to the end fittings causing corrosion and make the motor a no start. I have never had that problem because I lifted the wires up out of the bilge and secured them under the bed spline right after I got the boat.

I have also be really lucky that I have not really had any salt water come in at all ever because I have boots (of my own design) on the motor linkage.

Most of the water I have heard about in M boats is rain water or hose water. I suppose if your aft is really heavy you could get salt water into the boat from the rudders.

macowneril2015
Engineer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:51 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Downtown Chicago, 2001 26X, 2001 50 Hp Nissan (NS50D2)

Re: Outboard help

Post by macowneril2015 » Thu May 28, 2020 10:02 am

I wanted to say I think the intermittent power issue lied in me not placing the cables that go to the remote bus bar / perko switch on the terminals first. I tried an experiment and flipped what was the first place and it replicated the error. I wanted to update this in case anyone down the line has this issue

macowneril2015
Engineer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:51 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Downtown Chicago, 2001 26X, 2001 50 Hp Nissan (NS50D2)

Re: Outboard help

Post by macowneril2015 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:12 am

So I pulled the boat out and hauled it home and now I’m having the same issue, intermittent voltage drop. I changed the master fuse and it seemed to work but then as soon as I buttoned it all up it failed. There’s also a delayed response to when the gauges sense power. Any ideas would be great as everyone was so helpful last time and it worked all season not sure why it failed after I towed it home. I tested the place the battery cables come in and its hovering around 12.75 volts but as soon as I try to tilt or crank it drops to 0 and then will bounce back up eventually.

User avatar
Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Outboard help

Post by Jimmyt » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:34 pm

Please identify the component to right of the bus bar.

Image

So, we are likely looking for something you haven't touched yet.
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

macowneril2015
Engineer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:51 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Downtown Chicago, 2001 26X, 2001 50 Hp Nissan (NS50D2)

Re: Outboard help

Post by macowneril2015 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:55 pm

Jimmyt wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:34 pm
Please identify the component to right of the bus bar.

Image

So, we are likely looking for something you haven't touched yet.
It is the automatic charging relay.

User avatar
Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Outboard help

Post by Jimmyt » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:12 pm

Are there any terminals you haven't replaced? Are the main wires going to the motor continuous, or is there a connection in the bilge area? Are there any devices (main fuse, ammeter, etc), in the main wire going to the motor? Did you re-do all of the black wire terminals also?

On the terminals you replaced, was the stranded wire shiny copper, or clean, tinned copper? You didn't put new terminals on dark brown or green stranded wire, did you?

Where in the system are you measuring zero volts? Describe exactly where the meter leads are probing (I don't understand where in the system "where the battery cables come in" is).

Where is the "main fuse" in the system? What is the rating of the fuse? Try taking your jumper cables and jump across the two fuse lugs to see if that makes a difference.

Excellent problem, by the way. Wish it was closer. Frustrating not to be able to dig in to it. :wink:
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

User avatar
Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Outboard help

Post by Jimmyt » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:57 pm

Also, have you bypassed the A-B battery switch to see if it's the problem?
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

macowneril2015
Engineer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:51 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Downtown Chicago, 2001 26X, 2001 50 Hp Nissan (NS50D2)

Re: Outboard help

Post by macowneril2015 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm

Jimmyt wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:57 pm
Also, have you bypassed the A-B battery switch to see if it's the problem?
I will try this tomorrow and will take images to post of the other items.

Starscream
Captain
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:08 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Montreal, Quebec. 2002 26X - Etec90

Re: Outboard help

Post by Starscream » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:24 am

Well, the way I see it, it's either the motor or it's the components inside the boat. How to decide which?

How about taking a battery out of the boat, putting it right beside the motor, and hooking it up with a short run of wire? If it's the same battery, and the motor starts, then it's a wiring thing. If the motor doesn't start it's a motor thing. At least you would know where to focus.

The symptoms are very similar to my starter/wiring problem. With the old 50HP wiring, the new 90HP had starting problems. It got worse as the motor got older, and eventually the starter failed. I replaced the wiring with 1 gauge, put in a new starter, and the motor starts instantly...like as fast as I can release the key.

The other problem with the original wiring was that it was run through the wet bilge. I think the wires deteriorated over time, being constantly wet and loose in the bilge. The new ones are run in conduit.

macowneril2015
Engineer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:51 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Downtown Chicago, 2001 26X, 2001 50 Hp Nissan (NS50D2)

Re: Outboard help

Post by macowneril2015 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:25 pm

macowneril2015 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm
Jimmyt wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:57 pm
Also, have you bypassed the A-B battery switch to see if it's the problem?
I will try this tomorrow and will take images to post of the other items.
Seems like the perko switch is bad, which is odd because it is only a year old. I connected the outboard cables direct to a battery and only lost between .5 to a volt when tilting or cranking.

User avatar
Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Outboard help

Post by Jimmyt » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm

macowneril2015 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:25 pm
Seems like the perko switch is bad, which is odd because it is only a year old. I connected the outboard cables direct to a battery and only lost between .5 to a volt when tilting or cranking.
Great! You found it!
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

Starscream
Captain
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:08 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Montreal, Quebec. 2002 26X - Etec90

Re: Outboard help

Post by Starscream » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:33 am

Good to know it ain't the motor. After that, it's just testing/replacing one wiring component at a time.

If it's the Perko, then great! Easy to replace, but odd tho. Easy enough to bypass the Perko to really isolate it as the problem. Just bolt the incoming and outgoing wires together temporarily (twice, once for each battery) and give the motor a go.

Oh, and I can't really make out the details in your photo, but doesn't the ACR require a negative connection back to the batteries or bus bar?

macowneril2015
Engineer
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:51 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Downtown Chicago, 2001 26X, 2001 50 Hp Nissan (NS50D2)

Re: Outboard help

Post by macowneril2015 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:59 pm

Starscream wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:33 am
Good to know it ain't the motor. After that, it's just testing/replacing one wiring component at a time.

If it's the Perko, then great! Easy to replace, but odd tho. Easy enough to bypass the Perko to really isolate it as the problem. Just bolt the incoming and outgoing wires together temporarily (twice, once for each battery) and give the motor a go.

Oh, and I can't really make out the details in your photo, but doesn't the ACR require a negative connection back to the batteries or bus bar?
I appreciate all of your insight as I am new to all of this, I looked up the specs and it seems to show it as optional to connect to the ignition switch which I would have no idea on what I am doing there but if its needed I can do it. I also see they have an optional switch for no draw which is interesting as well.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resourc ... 014350.pdf

Rhino
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Outboard help

Post by Rhino » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm

Check and clean the negative terminal on the motor.

User avatar
Jimmyt
Admiral
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Mobile AL 2013 26M, 60 Etec

Re: Outboard help

Post by Jimmyt » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:00 am

macowneril2015 wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:59 pm
Starscream wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:33 am
Good to know it ain't the motor. After that, it's just testing/replacing one wiring component at a time.

If it's the Perko, then great! Easy to replace, but odd tho. Easy enough to bypass the Perko to really isolate it as the problem. Just bolt the incoming and outgoing wires together temporarily (twice, once for each battery) and give the motor a go.

Oh, and I can't really make out the details in your photo, but doesn't the ACR require a negative connection back to the batteries or bus bar?
I appreciate all of your insight as I am new to all of this, I looked up the specs and it seems to show it as optional to connect to the ignition switch which I would have no idea on what I am doing there but if its needed I can do it. I also see they have an optional switch for no draw which is interesting as well.

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resourc ... 014350.pdf
According to your ACR connection diagrams, Starscream is correct. Your ACR may not be working properly without the negative connection.
Jimmyt
P-Cub-Boo
2013 26M, Etec 60, roller Genoa, roller main
Cruising Waters: Mobile Bay, Western Shore, Fowl River

Post Reply