MX-5: The Throne Room

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Inquisitor
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MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Inquisitor » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:03 pm

For day sails and weekend trips, the Mac has served us well. We rough it, swimming in lakes and going to bed feeling only slightly grungy after mere sponge baths. :) We started doing some extended week-long type trips in Florida and found the pleasure quotient went way down toward the end of the week with ice gone and hot, stinky crew. :? And... I can't even begin to tell you without using sailor's language how I don't like the port-a-potty. :evil:

So... In an endeavor to bring the :macm: up to an RV's level of comfort so we can extend our trips, I want a shower and a proper "thinking" room... preferably with some sound deadening. :D As... you might already know in project MX-4, the old head space is no more and good-riddance. The Admiral didn't like the idea of sky-lights over the Pot-ay. She had them covered up. So without further a-do and where the X portion of the MX comes into play... I'll be moving the head to the location where the X has it.

Image

From what I've scoped out...
  • It will be a "wet" head - showering will wet down the whole area.
  • The shower area alone will be about 2' x 2' of flat floor space. The floor height will be defined by the top of the longitudinal spine/tank ballast runner.
  • At hip height it will be almost 3' x 3'.
  • Unfortunately, the height will only be about 5' 6" which is the best that can be found in the M without being in the central floor.
  • For me at 5',8", I am able to stand strait up as long as I bend my head over. :? The Admiral won't be bumping her head at all. :D
  • The throne (an incoming AirHead Composting Toilet) is at the aft-end of this space and does NOT encroach into that 2' x 2' floor space.
  • In other words, if you've been on a cruise ship, the shower space will be larger here.
  • The water will be electric pump pressurized to 30 psi.
  • I am looking at ways of heating the water, but that is still TBD.
I'm not sure if my carpentry skills are up to it, by I want to attempt to make the rounded corner using wood paneling. I am also hoping to make the door open inward versus outward as on the X. I will be evaluating once I get to that point, but things might change.

Here is a animation showing my current expectations.
https://inqonthat.com/wp-content/upload ... 1/Head.avi
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Herschel
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Herschel » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:34 pm

The original owner of my 26X ran a freshwater line with pump to the stern so he could screw on a shower hose for showers. I haven't used it myself, but it might be an easier solution. I typically sail in Florida fresh water and just go for a quick dip, if I get hot and sweaty, or use a water bottle with a spray nozzle.

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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Russ » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:51 am

Wow. That sounds like quite a project.

I took the door off the head and we use a curtain to the port side to make the head/v-berth. Still little headroom, but it was a fairly easy mod.

BOAT has a shower mod made out of a "pan" and curtain with hot water. It isn't soundproof, but much less work than taking out fiberglass.
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Ixneigh » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:14 pm

So what goes in that little space where the dinette table was?
I might consider reversing your layout to move the head into that spot and leave open the seat where you show the head now. Reason being that that spot is kind of nice to have open for putting stuff prior to storing, sitting on anchor watch and leaning up against the hull, and making the back berth less claustrophobic. The head would be a bit bigger.

Ix

Btw I’m very reluctant to cut up that liner. Boats already scary flexible in bouncy conditions.
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by dlandersson » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:41 am

Where could I buy a replacement "short" table for a 97X?
Ixneigh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:14 pm
So what goes in that little space where the dinette table was?
I might consider reversing your layout to move the head into that spot and leave open the seat where you show the head now. Reason being that that spot is kind of nice to have open for putting stuff prior to storing, sitting on anchor watch and leaning up against the hull, and making the back berth less claustrophobic. The head would be a bit bigger.

Ix

Btw I’m very reluctant to cut up that liner. Boats already scary flexible in bouncy conditions.

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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Inquisitor » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:01 am

Ixneigh wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:14 pm
So what goes in that little space where the dinette table was?
I might consider reversing your layout to move the head into that spot and leave open the seat where you show the head now. Reason being that that spot is kind of nice to have open for putting stuff prior to storing, sitting on anchor watch and leaning up against the hull, and making the back berth less claustrophobic. The head would be a bit bigger.

Ix

Btw I’m very reluctant to cut up that liner. Boats already scary flexible in bouncy conditions.
Dinette Replacment
It won't be a dinette anymore. That's the only given. Starboard mod will be MX-7 and Port mod will be MX-8... unless something else bubbles up before them. A.D.H.D is just one shiny thing away... :D

Cutting
I remember my first cutting of it, back around 2010.

Rightfully so... I had to "write-off" the boat's resale value in my mind. Although, I am willing to be responsible for my and my crew's safety, I'm not willing to take liability of a future owners. It wasn't really that hard. I could never part with it because it fits my needs better than any other boat, but also because the resale value of it in even pristine (original) condition would be an insult. Buddy of mine bought a Cal 22 with trailer, motor and good sails. It was turn-key ready to sail for $1200. I had $30k into the M before it splashed water. What's it worth now? (rhetorically) a pittance.

Now that its cut, I don't mind cutting it more. Caveat - I don't want to sound too flippant as that might encourage someone to do something risky. My formal education and career were in structural analysis using composite materials.
Last edited by Inquisitor on Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Jimmyt » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:27 am

Inquisitor wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:03 pm

I'm not sure if my carpentry skills are up to it, by I want to attempt to make the rounded corner using wood paneling.
Depending on the radius you're after, you could probably do it by laminating a few sheets of thin plywood on a curved buck. Tight curves could be made of solid strips glued together on a curved buck, then veneered on both sides to match your adjacent panels. Wouldn't take much skill to do either (at least not for you).

Curious about what type of finish you're planning for the wet side. :)
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Inquisitor » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:55 pm

Jimmyt wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:27 am
Depending on the radius you're after, you could probably do it by laminating a few sheets of thin plywood on a curved buck. Tight curves could be made of solid strips glued together on a curved buck, then veneered on both sides to match your adjacent panels. Wouldn't take much skill to do either
I think I would be able to do it if I used that very expensive wood veneers, https://www.rockler.com/learn/introduct ... -veneering but I'm way too cheap and untrusting of my skills to bite down on that... I'd have to do the whole boat in the same stuff. OUCH!$$$ I'm using the cheap 1/5" plywood https://www.lowes.com/pd/RevolutionPly- ... 8/50121135. I'm still debating the radius I need to achieve, but it'll be on the order of 5". I was thinking about steaming it. And if that doesn't work, I could table saw the back say 2/3rd of the thickness off. Will experiment... and report back here... PASS/FAIL. :?
(at least not for you).
I don't think I'm at your skill level as evident in the Galley Mod. I may talk a good story, but I haven't given evidence of any carpentry skills that I'd not be ashamed to show. :D
Curious about what type of finish you're planning for the wet side. :)
I'm open to suggestions. So far I'm considering: The first would be the most bland, but I'm sure it'd be water tight in the corners draining into the sump. The latter two would need calking in the corners. Maybe the fiberglass tabbing of the walls would assure water tightness. The last one is the cheap solution.
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Jimmyt » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:22 pm

Kerfing the plywood as you suggest will work up to a point. I might do a test piece to see if 5" radius will work. That might be the trick.

I like the laminate look. Constructability might be a challenge unless you use an adhesive that allows repositioning. Contact adhesive would not be my choice for this project, unless of are going to apply it to the panels before you put them in the boat. Your 5" radius may be an issue. Never tried to put laminate on a tight radius, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. You can do a fairly tight radius when edging it, but I've never done a wide piece. Also, if you can find some flexible corner moldings to give you a little room for error with your cuts, it might be helpful. A tube of 4200 would make it watertight and stick the corner molding in I bet.

Fiberglass would be strong. You could get it water tight, and it could be made to look as good as the laminate if you are the artsy type. But, finishing it in that small space, with all of the inside corners might be unpleasant.

I've been mulling this over for a future project on mine, so very interested to see how yours comes along.

Cool mod.
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Ixneigh » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:26 pm

You could make a fiberglass enclosure by making a temp. Mold. Do all the finishing outside the boat.

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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Inquisitor » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:06 pm

I'm leaning away from any fiberglass work that has to show. I just spent the last three days putting on the last layers on my MX-1 Dagger board project. The fact that its 68F in the basement and I have slow epoxy is about to make me go bald. MX-2 is also curing with the same slow-mo process. Pictures tomorrow. Just came up from the basement. At this moment, if I never see fiberglass again... it'll be too soon.

Anyhow, I'd still use fiberglass for tabbing the heads wall into the liner/hull, but I'd want to cover them up with something cosmetic. I guess I need to look into the vinyl flooring. It would be more forgiving around gentle 3D curves. The Formica... everything would have to be 2D curves. And since there isn't a plumb, square, strait line inside the boat. Might even be able to heat-gun from the back side and slap it on the hull to form fit it. Never tried it, but sounds reasonable in my addled mind.
Ixneigh wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:26 pm
You could make a fiberglass enclosure by making a temp. Mold. Do all the finishing outside the boat.

Ix
I'm not sure I imagining right. Are you saying something like
  1. make a wood box shaped sized to fit the space with fillets and all, sand, polish, wax...
  2. then lay fiberglass on the outside of it... with finished surface up against the wood.
  3. pop it off "somehow" and it'd look like a fiberglass shower stall from Homer's Depot???
... or hopefully you've got something easier in mind?
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Inquisitor » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:48 am

...a little less addled. I'm guessing you mean, just make a template with cardboard to get it just right, then cut the wood, stain, poly outside the boat.
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Re: MX-5: In HOT Water

Post by Inquisitor » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:03 am

This idea is way out there. I'm looking for constructive criticism... Do you think it will work? Got better ideas?

Here are the constraints that drove me to this concept.
  • I will be doing most all of my sailing in warm weather. If it's below 70F, I'll be heading for the trailer and migrating South.
  • Most of the time its so hot, a cold shower is just a welcome relief.
  • Cleaning dishes with room-temperature water has been no real burden.
  • Point being, hot-water has minor luxury import - EXCEPT - the Admiral, likes lobster cooking showers.
  • I looked into the sub $100 camp water heaters, but the complexity of running gas lines, and wasting water out to and back from a transom mounted water heater just isn't worth it. I'd waste a gallon just getting the hot water to the faucet/shower.
  • As much battery power as I'll have, its still not enough for water heating.
The main thing I want to question, is supplying the hot water on the pre-pump side. That way it is not pressurized AND far safer. This easily allows two methods of heating.
  1. Passive solar heating through a black painted panel and a small thermostatically controlled pump to recycle water to/from this "hot water tank" taking all day if necessary and be ready for an evening shower / wash dishes in the evening coolness.
  2. Allow me to heat up a pot of water on a gas stove / grill when necessary and just pour it into the tank.
Image
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Re: MX-5: The Throne Room

Post by Inquisitor » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:07 pm

Jimmyt wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:22 pm
Kerfing the plywood as you suggest will work up to a point...
Thanks JimmyT for the keyword. I YouTube'd a few and tried it out. Turns out I need 6" radius. With the veneer grain going vertical, it was too stiff, but probably could be bent with some water soaking. With the veneer grain going around the circumference, it was almost too limp. Easily makes a 5" radius without having to tie it down, but with a maximum of 4' tall, I'll have to do two pieces for the door. Maybe some kind of accent strip between them.

Word for the day! - Kerfing! 8)
Image
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Re: MX-5: In HOT Water

Post by Jimmyt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:12 pm

Inquisitor wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:03 am
This idea is way out there. I'm looking for constructive criticism... Do you think it will work? Got better ideas?

Here are the constraints that drove me to this concept.
  • I will be doing most all of my sailing in warm weather. If it's below 70F, I'll be heading for the trailer and migrating South.
  • Most of the time its so hot, a cold shower is just a welcome relief.
  • Cleaning dishes with room-temperature water has been no real burden.
  • Point being, hot-water has minor luxury import - EXCEPT - the Admiral, likes lobster cooking showers.
  • I looked into the sub $100 camp water heaters, but the complexity of running gas lines, and wasting water out to and back from a transom mounted water heater just isn't worth it. I'd waste a gallon just getting the hot water to the faucet/shower.
  • As much battery power as I'll have, its still not enough for water heating.
The main thing I want to question, is supplying the hot water on the pre-pump side. That way it is not pressurized AND far safer. This easily allows two methods of heating.
  1. Passive solar heating through a black painted panel and a small thermostatically controlled pump to recycle water to/from this "hot water tank" taking all day if necessary and be ready for an evening shower / wash dishes in the evening coolness.
  2. Allow me to heat up a pot of water on a gas stove / grill when necessary and just pour it into the tank.
Image
This is a good way to do it if you can set a temp that everyone is happy with. You'll have a single valve to deal with at the shower. Very simple. Our locker room in high school was designed that way. The water temp was whatever coach decided. We could only turn the showers on and off.

Using unpressurized sources, one problem may be the pressure drop of the mixing valve. You normally need to have enough elevation (head) to overcome the valve pressure drop at the required flow for both hot and cold sources to stay out of NPSH issues. However, if you use a positive displacement pump, you may have a better chance to suck the water through the valve, up to a point. If you have to pull it too hard, the water will vaporize at the valve, and the pump suction. It shouldn't be a problem unless you mount the tanks very low and the pump high. Since I don't know the characteristics of your valve, or your proposed configuration, I'm only able to give you a "this is a potential problem" heads up. May not be an issue.

It would be better to pump the hot and cold into the mixing valve (requires two pumps). But, you can try it and see how it goes. You can put a pressure gauge at the pump suction and see what you've got.
Last edited by Jimmyt on Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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