Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

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Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Login3 »

Hiya,

So ... I'll preface this by saying I'm doing something slightly dodgy, but trying to do it right, so I can finish the job later.

I'm going to fit my 12-gallon temporary tanks in the standard location with permanent vent lines. The supply to filter/engine will also be of a more permanent nature, that is, eliminating quick disconnect spray-int-the-face leakers. The fills will still be through the seat access for now.

Later in life I may drop the tanks' location to the aft berth area for better CG and encapsulate that entire area whilst leaving access to stern fittings and whatnot. The vents I plan to install now will reach down there, and the fills will be updated to proper through-hulls.

I need to do this due to the fact that the plastic tanks need to vent, and the fumes will make being in a BWY full enclosure during bug and rain storms quite unpleasant.

Here's the question: I'd like to put the vents (one for each tank, valved at the tank) which are Attwood 90-degree anti-siphon vents, at the very stern, inboard of the "fins" but outside the enclosure. To access this area, I am thinking of cutting 4" holes (that will be filled later with the round threaded deck seal bulkhead thingies). What is behind this panel? It would be a great location as it's covered by the seat in normal operation.

The vents would be better in the further away location at the end of the "fin" but easier in the first location facing aft. Please see pics.

Info regarding the potential access BEFORE I cut the holes would be really appreciated!
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Starscream
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Starscream »

As far as I I know there's nothing in there other than styrofoam and a second vertical fiberglass stiffener/wall inside there.

This photo is on the opposite side, above the motor cables, but I assume it's the same on the port side.
Image

I just mounted a fuel filter on the other surface yesterday, and when I drilled the holes for an M10 rivnut and bolt, the backing was just styrofoam as well. You can see the deck plate installed in the hole, which was used to mount a backing plate for the Honda 2.3 kicker motor.

Image
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Be Free
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Be Free »

The wire for the stern light is in that area but it is up high and runs near the rub rail. I don't think you can damage it where you are thinking of cutting. It was so hard to get to that I'm pretty sure it is the last piece of original wire on my boat.
Bill
2001 26X Simple Interest
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"If I were in a hurry I would not have bought a sailboat." Me
OverEasy
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Login3!

Nice idea with the vents! Especially given you’re gonna have a full enclosure (I assume with those nice vinyl weather panels.. we can only dream 🛌).

Might I suggest that you consider the option of drilling through from somewhere on the fuel cubby upper portion of aft wall on through to the stern exterior face? The hole would be a tight fit to the piping that threads to your vent hardware. The vent pipe length would be long enough to reach inside the cubby so one could add shims behind the threaded adapter of the cubby side to compress and seal the vent flange to the aft stern face. A little 5200 on both the outer stern face and in inner cubby face to seal things up. Then plumb to your tank vent(s).
> This could save you the hassle and aggravation of making an access hole then trying to seal it up afterwards. Just a thought to consider.

I’d don’t think I’d ever consider placing a fuel tank of any kind within the enclosed cabin volume.
Murphy’s Law says that “ any liquid fluid storage can and will leak “ and has the corollary “ the nastier and more hazardous the fluid the more apt it is to leak “.

Another thing to consider is that should a fluid like gasoline leak within the cabin space it will not only be extremely hazardous ⚠️ it would also be extremely difficult to clean-up after such a leak with any degree safety. Then there will always be a persistent fuel smell to contend with as well.

A vent line leak within the enclosed cabin space could be particularly worrisome in that a slow vapor leak is somewhat insidious… fuel vapors are heavier than air and settle to the lowest areas available which gradually accumulate…
The slow vapor accumulation does several things:
> First is it sneaks up on any personnel inside the enclosed volume such that they may not notice it or become ‘used to it’
> Second is it accumulates in a confined space displacing the breathable air
> Third it can develope into a stociometric or explosive concentrations
> Fourth is the consideration that the vapors are exposed to multiple potential ignition sources within the cabin and bilges. Not only things like the batteries or propane cook tops but also light bulbs, switches and static electricity (remember that our boats are made from fiberglass and plastic resin which love to develope static charges). Boat with enclosed fuel and engine compartments are required to have positive air displacement blowers sufficient to displace any potential explosive vapors several times over before allowing engine ignition to be operated.

The existing fuel cubbies on a Mac26X or Mac26M are designed such that fuel vapors and spillage do not accumulate but naturally dissipate and drain away. There is a designed in lip at the cabin entrance to discourage fuel vapors from entering the cabin area. The fuel cubbies drain to the cockpit floor and then off the stern directly or indirectly through the engine bowl to go overboard to safely dilute and dissipate.

If your desire is to lower your center of gravity to hopefully affect boat handling then there are much easier and safer approaches to be pursued. Considerable thought and effort went into designing our MacGregors. They were designed to have the fuel cubbies where they are for multiple reasons.

If you feel that additional stability is necessary then vessel operation with the water ballast filled is a prime option to take advantage of.
The proportional CG shift offered by the water ballast grossly overwhelms any perceived aspect of moving a variable mass like the fuel tanks down into the lower aft berth area.

Note: This is a bit simplified but it conveys the idea….
The filled water ballast tank adds about 1500+ lbs of mass to the lowest portion of the hull.
The moment arm is roughly -18 inches below water line.
This yields a stabilizing moment force of 1500 lbs x (-)18 inches = -27000 lb-inches which is effectively located along the centerline if the boat (at its lowest place)

The two fuel tanks are currently proposed to be 12 gallons each.
Gasoline weighs roughly 6 lbd per gallon giving each tank a weight 12 gal x 6 lbs = 70 lbs
Note that the tanks are located on opposite sides approximately 30 inches offset from boat centerline to each tank centerline.
The tanks are located approximately 24 inches above the water line.
This yields a max destabilizing moment force of 70 lbs x (+)24 inches = 1680 lb-inches per tank per side above waterline.
So no matter how one wants to approach this aspect the largest percentage moment impact would be at most approximately
(1680/27000) = .062 or 6.2%% and this is without consideration of the actual boat center of gravity moment and at a worst case condition of having one fuel tank completely empty and the other tank completely full.

The side offset from centerline of each tank yields a max destabilizing moment force of 70 lbs x 30 inches = 2100 lb-inches from boat centerline. We’ll come back to that in a moment…

Now let’s see what moving the tanks down into the lower aft berth yields…
The distance of the tank CG above waterline diminishes to about (+)6 inches resting on the aft berth floor.
This yields a destabilizing moment of 70 lbs x (+)6 inches = 420 lb-inches per tank
The impact would now become 420/27000 = .016 or 1.6%.
So the perceived benefit toward stability actually approach only 6.2% - 1.5% = 4.7%

In reality if both tanks are completely full they actually counter balance each other not only when on an even keel but also when heeled over to either side.
The reality is that the fuel tanks are a variable mass dependent upon actual fuel levels as weight maximizes at 70 lbs when full and basically is 0 lbs when empty.
So any perceived stability benefit is variable and transient at best.

(Balanced fuel usage between fuel tanks is always appropriate for a variety of reasons but that can be another discussion. :) :) )

Now this whole thing is about stability and we’ve had the ballast tank fully filled.
That’s because stability while sailing is a primary feature of our boat design.
Sailing incurs the most heel angles our boat experience and hence the greater stability concerns.

But what about when motoring (like we mainly do with Over Easy)?
The hydrodynamics of operations as a motor cruiser are a significantly different than sailing vessel.
With an empty ballast tank and the boat on plane the hull lifts further from the water line. This is where the hull shape and chines come more into play and the perceived benefit of lowering the fuel mass diminishes further in actuality.
It’s a bit difficult to go into it via a textual discussion alone… several diagrams and variable mathematics become more involved to explain it accurately which can get into sleepy time reading for most folks… 😴😴😴

The easiest way to explain this is experientially….
Go out to where one can get up to one’s max speed with an empty ballast tank and equal fuel tank levels in a straight line with a 100 lb (or more) passenger on board in the cockpit.
Then have your passenger position themselves along the centerline of the boat as a baseline reference starting point.
Next without changing power or helm have your passenger shift their weight from centerline all the way to the seated position on the port side.
Repeat for the starboard side.
The boat should experience a very slight turning toward the side the passenger moved.

Now repeat with the only change being directional compensation via the helm position to keep on a straight course.
You will find that even though your passenger is roughly 50% heavier than a full 12 gallon fuel tank and has a CG considerably higher than the fuel tank that the impact on directional and heel stability are really marginal at a worst case and negligible when using helm directional control.

Repeating with the ballast tank full will show an even smaller weight sh~t impact upon stability.

Having that ballast tank full is something we do when traversing heavy seas and it dramatically improves vessel stability and roll (heel) characteristics. Filling and draining the ballast are both easily accomplished by design.

To make it even easier we have a TBD project for maybe the off season to add a ballast low pressure compressed air blowout system with an integral interlock and automatic pressure relief… this would be so that when the Admiral goes to take a nap I can fill or drain the ballast tank single handed without leaving the helm or statically when we are at the slip or moored out…or other situations….. But that’s another topic :wink:

I hope this might help you avoid expending a good bit of effort for a minimal to negligible perceived benefit.
I really like the idea of the directed tank venting aft from the cubbies, especially with a full enclosure!👍👍

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Login3
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Login3 »

Hi OverEasy! Right off the bat, thanks for taking the time to write all that. I read, appreciated, adn thanked the others who wrote as well - each had information and pics I find helpful, but you had such a long post I feel the need to respond to certain points.

We plan to run with full ballast at all times. During my sea trial, we found the best efficient speed with the 60 Mercury 4-stroke is about 7 kts -up to maybe 10. For us, that's fine (we came from a 33' Truant pilothouse sloop with a Yanmar 2QM20. 7-10kts is sheer luxury to us!). The fuel consumption of the Mercury reported only a very slight difference with the ballast full.

Thanks too, for saving me a bunch of work/time/headache (and from fumes, both epoxy and fuel vapours leaking inadvertantly due to various rules about the likelihood of such despite all manner of effort ...)

OK, so I agree on the not lowering the tanks, and with your math, so kindly furnished, I see that it would be mostly useless to do so ... although I'm kinda bummed not to look forward to the future use of the fuel tank cubbies for useful detritus (fenders, PFD's, dock lines, yada yada yada .. )

Further question about your suggestion: If I read you correctly, you are saying the aft upper wall of the fuel cubby - a straight shot to the outer fin aft face, with a RIGID tube? If so, that's similar to what I was thinking, but not fully ... my idea was to use the access hole to reach the inside areas so I can insert a large tube, which would be liberally sealed as it passed through the sections that would otherwise be open to the interior (in case the low permeable line leaked a bit) but I see now that I'd still have trouble attaching the right-angle "tee" of the Attwood fitting that goes to the inside of the boat ... it's approx. 3", with the top anti-siphon bit protruding up above the horizontal through-hull part by about 1".

Looking at it now I can see that my secure tube in which the fuel vent line was to run is a useless idea ... but having access to it to inspect/replace the line and/or fittings is a good thing.

Plus .. I have an idea for a stern-mounted dinghy tow bridle rigid extension, to limit the potential of prop fouling the floating bridle line ... and the access plates would be giving me access to put backing plates behind the mounting holes for that apparatus .. which is still in design phase in my head. But .. given that as well, I almost need TWO access plates .. one in the location I suggested, under the seat overhang, (which is mostly out of weather, especially with the full enclosure) but another on the our section of the inside "fin".

Regarding trim of tanks/weight of fuel: Any reason not to use both tanks simultaneously?

Oh, and my moniker "Login3" is a holdover from when I joined .. I could not get a login name to "stick" and finally one did. Weird issue with the website that went away and now I'm stuck! Oops!

Lots to consider, but thanks again for saving me time and work and frustration!

Cheers,

Gene
OverEasy wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 12:23 pm (edited for brevity/salient points)
Hi Login3!

Nice idea with the vents! Especially given you’re gonna have a full enclosure (I assume with those nice vinyl weather panels.. we can only dream 🛌).

Might I suggest that you consider the option of drilling through from somewhere on the fuel cubby upper portion of aft wall on through to the stern exterior face? The hole would be a tight fit to the piping that threads to your vent hardware. The vent pipe length would be long enough to reach inside the cubby so one could add shims behind the threaded adapter of the cubby side to compress and seal the vent flange to the aft stern face. A little 5200 on both the outer stern face and in inner cubby face to seal things up. Then plumb to your tank vent(s).
> This could save you the hassle and aggravation of making an access hole then trying to seal it up afterwards. Just a thought to consider.

I’d don’t think I’d ever consider placing a fuel tank of any kind within the enclosed cabin volume.
Murphy’s Law says that “ any liquid fluid storage can and will leak “ and has the corollary “ the nastier and more hazardous the fluid the more apt it is to leak “.

Another thing to consider is that should a fluid like gasoline leak within the cabin space it will not only be extremely hazardous ⚠️ it would also be extremely difficult to clean-up after such a leak with any degree safety. Then there will always be a persistent fuel smell to contend with as well.

If your desire is to lower your center of gravity to hopefully affect boat handling then there are much easier and safer approaches to be pursued. Considerable thought and effort went into designing our MacGregors. They were designed to have the fuel cubbies where they are for multiple reasons.

If you feel that additional stability is necessary then vessel operation with the water ballast filled is a prime option to take advantage of.
The proportional CG shift offered by the water ballast grossly overwhelms any perceived aspect of moving a variable mass like the fuel tanks down into the lower aft berth area.

Note: This is a bit simplified but it conveys the idea….
The filled water ballast tank adds about 1500+ lbs of mass to the lowest portion of the hull.
The moment arm is roughly -18 inches below water line.
This yields a stabilizing moment force of 1500 lbs x (-)18 inches = -27000 lb-inches which is effectively located along the centerline if the boat (at its lowest place)


I hope this might help you avoid expending a good bit of effort for a minimal to negligible perceived benefit.
I really like the idea of the directed tank venting aft from the cubbies, especially with a full enclosure!👍👍

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
OverEasy
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Login3!

I kinda like the moniker. It makes sense 👍

Yes, there are unique aspects to every situation … one has to look at all the pieces and how they can fit without gettin in each others way. :D

I stuck my head in our own cubbies to see where we could route a vent aft ( just in case we can ever get a cockpit enclosure someday.
For our setup i’d possibly go a slightly different approach.
As tank venting is a relatively slow and low volume process a smaller diameter thick walled SST tube would be used to make the transition from cubby to aft face. I’d put the tubing inside two neoprene rubber (anti-chaffing) grommets at each wall penetration. The wall through penetrations would be the diameter to fit the grommets… these would center the tubing to keep it from contacting anything inbetween the cubby wall and stern at face. I’d probably still apply some 5200 to each side.

On the aft face I'd use a swaged right angle SST tube to NPT fitting (minimizing protrusion from surface) to go from the tubing to fit a small sintered SST cylindrical vent that would be pointed downward.

At the cubby face I’d swage on another right angle SST tube to tube fitting but point it toward the boat center.
Add a short length of tubing about 3 inches long. (This would be to act as a lever arm to keep the finished assembly from rotating/twisting later).
To the open end of the of the short tube swage a SST tube-to-NPT fitting then add a hose barb to that.
I’d add a small two flange saddle wall clamp to pinch the short tubing length to the cubby wall. (That would help keep everything in position).
I’d then connect a fuel rated rubber tube to the barb end and to the other end a QD set and another bit of hose to connect to the vent (however that works out best depending upon the particular tank geometry involved trying to keep a low profile so the tank can come in/out as may be needed). The hose lengths would be long enough to allow the QD set to be easily accessed from the cockpit while seated but short enough to get easily tucked away. (I personally don’t like to crawl around or hang upside down to access finished projects if I can avoid it.

The SST hardware and fittings will hold up over time.

A good supplier for SST tube and fittings is a company called Swagelock. They have the best selection, are consistent, helpful and excellent quality. They have a website catalog too although I prefer my old paper one.

So that my conceptual idea of how I think I might approach the tank venting aft.
This is just my thoughts and there are a whole lot of other valid approaches as well… there is seldom only one right answer to technical stuff, :D :D

On the bridle bit idea to avoid prop fouling with the lines… That’s an interesting one that we’ve already given some thought to for our own needs. (We have an inflatable dinghy that we’d like to bring with us on some longer trips.)
The approach that I’m leaning toward is to use three or four pool noodles arranged in a “Y” configuration through which the bridle lines are threaded. The upper legs of the “Y” go to either side of the engine and the down leg back to the dinghy such that no line dangles in the water. This would pretty much preclude any portion of the bridle lines from fouling the prop. Another up side is I’ll always know where the bridle lines are!👍

As it would only occasionally be used for those longer journeys so when not used it can be bundled neatly and stored in the garage at home.
If while on a journey it was desired to place the dinghy on the foredeck then the thing could be neatly bundled together and stored by hanging it on the lifelines over the cabin.

Again, just my thoughts. There are plenty of other ways to do this sort of thing.

As far as attaching the bridle lines to the boat my currently favored approach is to utilize the existing engine transom mount and a SST or spring aluminum spreader bar clamped between at the top two bolts to extend out to either side a foot or so with a SST eyelet on each side. That way any strain is directly tied back to the strongest portion of the engine transom mount rather than to the fiberglass hull. Any ‘spring’ is absorbed by the bar extensions. Added benefit is no need to drill or seal any additional holes in the boat hull.

Again, just my thoughts…..

Combined fuel tank usage isn’t something we do for a couple reasons.
> First is the aspect of most outboard engines utilize a small liquid type suction/siphon fuel pump approach.
If there are two tanks connected at the same time with unequal fuel line lengths or restrictions (line losses) then fuel will be used first from the tank that has the least line losses.
If there are two tanks with exactly the same line losses but unequal fuel levels then the tank with the least amount of fuel will run out first.
Now given that the engine fuel pump sucks fuel from the least restrictive source then it will preferentially attempt to draw from the empty tank as vapor has a lower resistance than fluid. Once the vapor gets to the engine fuel pump it will pretty much stop sucking anything altogether. (Note: That’s pretty much why outboard engines require a primer bulb to fill the fuel line to the engine fuel pump. These :| pumps don’t generally self prime.)
> Second is the aspect of potential fuel contamination. The primary contamination tends to be water, especially with fuel containing ethanol (alcohol) which tends to be hydroscopic (attracts water). The ethanol is supposed to mix with the water which it does…up to a point…and then not so much. (This is due to the variable nature of how much ethanol is actually remaining in the actual fuel…ethanol evaporates over time…) The potential water that ‘is mixed’ with the ethanol really doesn’t burn very well (or at all) but is less dense than plain water but tends to get consumed because there is generally some actual fuel present to support combustion…even if at a lower power level. If the ethanol has reached its limit of water mix capability it tend to be lower in the tank than fuel which is problematic for combustion. It would be nicer to be able to have the capability of being able to switch to the other tank on demand to isolate out the bum fuel tank.
> Third is that when designing fuel systems with one or more tanks the are desired to be drawn from concurrently these are generally either bottom tapped gravity fed and/or have boost pumps to drive the fuel to feed the engine fuel pump. Siphon type systems like for most boat tanks are an ‘up-and-over’ type with a soda straw getting to the bottom of the tank involved. Once primed it works reasonably well until it gets to trying to ‘suck’ vapors…then not so good :| :|. When any one tank in a siphon type system gets to vapor then it really doesn’t mater how much fuel one might have in the other tanks.
> Fourth is the “Oppsies Factor” that a combined tank fuel supply can generate…even with a gravity bottom feed and a boost pump. That when one merrily motors along until there is no fuel at all…the tanks have run dry and one is out somewhere that isn’t a gas station :o :o .

By feeding directly off of one tank at a time and regularly switching between tanks one provides a bit of margin for oneself … say every 15 minutes or so... If one particular tank runs dry then odds are you should still have a bit of fuel in the other tank that can provide you with at least some margin, time and options until the engine becomes dead weight…ie. Getting closer to shore, away from a hazard, slow down to a best fuel economy speed to get back to a launch ramp, slip or fuel depot.

Again, these are just my perspectives…. Personally we’re into situational awareness, risk mitigation and incident avoidance if that’s possible… Macs don’t row or paddle very well… :D :D… I’ve tried.

Boy this has been a long post…especially considering it’s been done on an iPad …. I’m bushed, I need a nap 😴 :D :D

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈

PS: Yeah crummy sketches but maybe they help convey the gist of the concepts… :D :D
Image

Image
Login3
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Login3 »

Wow ... all that on an iPad OverEasy - take it easy or you'll strain your typing finger! :D

OK, so here's my thoughts in response to your comments regarding the vent: 1. I don't have time to order the stuff I'd need to do that. 2. I don't have $$$ to spend on it, and 3. I'd like to get on the water this season (had the boat for 2 years and haven't used it due to me being the slowest worker ever), and 4. Due to my cloudy/cool location, as well as the very intermittent use expected, the fuel line I'm using for vent should last a long, long time before becoming a worry (although I WILL of course inspect!).

That said, your idea sounds like "the right way" or at least a righter way, and certainly more solid. Even the inclusion of the reachable disconnects with service loop ... I prefer to do things the right way ... sometimes so much so that the point of doing it never gets done.

But I will say that your sketch has an issue: Technically speaking, the vent must be higher than the tank. In case someone used it to scale, see.

As for the dinghy towing no-foul thing. my dinghy is a Gig Harbor Nisqually 8 with a cover. I'll likely (for now, that is, the one or two 1-2 overnighters we might get this season) use the swim ladder as a standoff, and the bridle through the ladder, then to the dink. Being an old VW person, I loathe cutting or drilling, so agree with that in principle ... this is a lot easier to cut/drill/seal/repair than those, however, I might simply add another swim ladder to match the one on the port side! Then I can use the two of them as guides/standoffs for the dink, and it can be centered/adjusted whilst under way. Then either ladder can be used to step out on to unclip the dinghy and board, or bring alongside so it can keep us up all night bonking against the hull like happened that one time we failed to set it properly for the night. : )

Thanks again for your thoughts, and I'll be re-reading them for sure ... very much appreciated!
OverEasy
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Login3!

Yeah, I’ve nearly driven my Admiral to distress with my typing these past 36 years!
“Tap…tap…tap…tap…tap……….tap…tap………tap………..tap……..@#&…taptaptaptaptaptaptap”
That last bit is me catching a boo-boo and back spacing to erase :o :cry: :D
The Admiral has a ‘resting’ typing speed of 120 words per minute and she can go a LOT FASTER THAN THAT! :wink:

Yeah I think we all share the time/cost/perfectionism gene to some extent. 8) :D
Yeah those concept sketches are pretty coarse but they were only done at the time in an attempt to ‘capture’ the thought before it ‘evaporated’ away… I know I left my coffe around here somewhere… in the garage maybe….. :| :wink:

If it works for you then that’s as valid a solution as any other.👍👍

I love the Gig Harbor Nisqually 8! That is a very nice and capable dinghy indeed!
Image
Image
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I like the dual ladders acting as stand backs!
That’s clever!
> (I might incorporate that concept somehow…🤔… as I’ve experimented with using our fold down ladder as a swim platform)
Again I’m nicely envious!👍 8)
A hard side dinghy that can row, motor or sail and easily carry three adults is very nice indeed! Kudos!👍

I noticed after your last post that you’re up in Alaska! It must be stunningly beautiful!
I can see why you want to get out and enjoy the most out of you sailing season!
It’s too precious to spend fussing with stuff when you could be out and about on the beautiful waters in your area!
Post some pictures when you can!👍

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Login3
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Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Login3 »

Hi OverEasy! Sorry to have dropped the response ball .. been fighting the ebb of time.

We got most of our parts in, so very soon I make my cuts for the vent line access ... I'm only awaiting the bulkhead fittings so I can drill, then thoroughly clean my tanks, and in the meantime work on other things.

I thought of using copper tubing through the cubby/bulkhead, as copper is fuel rated. But I don't seem to have enough lying around. Would be easy to join with tubing/hose clamps at either end. Also, I already have the tubing, which is way oversized. (5/8" with thick wall, so over 1" diameter ... for a vent? Geez, the actual fuel line is only 1/4"... why vent needs to be bigger than outflow I do not know.)

We DID get our Nisqually .. it's not the sailing version, though, but that's OK ... where to stow a mast and sail and rudder/tiller and daggerboard on a Mac? I dunno, so nevermind. Cute little boat. Been using the portside ladder as a step to test, and I feel it's up to the task as a standoff. I might make a temporary standoff for the other side in the meantime. We'll see.

In the other meantime I need to finish up several interior projects, the electrical, and obviously, the fuel system, so ... just waiting for rain to stop. (excuses!) Some of those "other things" I'll post in my own thread, as not to pollute those of others, or this one.

Cheers, Gene
OverEasy
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Login3!

Rain? It’s been serious sunshine here in our part of SC!
Hot 🥵 too!

Sound like a good working solution with the copper pipe… oversized is better than undersize and if you already have the fittings and piping it sounds perfect!👍

I’m way behind on my ‘To-Do’ lists… boat, house, yard, cars…… I just keep plugging away at them day by day.
Then there’s the projects I didn’t even know about… like helping my daughter and her friend modify a shorty school bus into a camper!
That one just showed up in the driveway!🤪🙄🫣🤔😆

That Nisqually sure is cute! Sailing version or not! 👍👍
I’m still nicely envious! 8) 8)

I’ve been kicking around the idea of using our swim ladder as a platform by using a line tied to the stern railing…🤔
Also thinking of adding a designated HD cleat as an anchor point…..

Glad you were able to settle on what works for your venting!

Best Regards
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Login3
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:14 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Gustavus, Alaska

Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Login3 »

Wow ... I KNEW I had that lying around. Finally found it and guess what? It's PERFECT. What am I blathering about? a section of 1/2" copper pipe. Found it in the shed when I was looking for something else.

So it happens to fit quite nicely into the 5/8" fuel line I got for the vent. It's nice and tight, but I'll stick a couple hose clamps on anyway.

This does a couple things: It turns the 10' of that fuel line into a lot of excess. But then, I have a lifetime supply for this purpose, since I'll be connecting it only at the vent and at the tank fitting (a few inches, to allow flexion).

On second thought, should I do a hard fitting? Go from my threaded fittings to flare? Ah .. but the Attwood vent fittings are barb ... so nevermind. Still need a few inches of this line.

It is NOT, sadly, low permeability fuel line, my bad. But it's VENT line, so fuel will not be sitting in it. Anyway the less I use, the better. (I'll coat it with epoxy! Muahahahaha ... oops, there goes the flexion - nevermind)

The other thing it does is to allow me to drill far smaller holes ... little bigger than 5/8" instead of a bit bigger than 1". That's nice.

Rigged a Vanagon mounting apparatus so I can load and unload my Nisqually dinghy by myself on a van. And did some other work inside the 26x ... some of which is picture-worthy, so when I get a moment I'll post those in their own threads. I just found out my centerboard is not retracting all the way ... so there's another delay ... yay! At least I don't have camper van mods to make .. oops, wait ... do I?
OverEasy
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:16 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: NH & SC

Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by OverEasy »

:D
OverEasy
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Login3!

:D :D I can relate! :D :D

Here’s some pix of my recent “surprise” project that just “Popped-Up” last week! :| :o :? :D
My daughter and friend came by for a quick visit between festivals (it’s what 20 something’s apparently do).
My daughter asked if I could help her friend make a “conversion” mod of a short school bus that she recently purchased… :| :o :P ….
Me response was “Huh?…. Aaahhhhh …. So when is this gonna occur?”….
Her reply was… “Like maybe today?” “Maybe tomorrow?” “We’ve got to be up in Tennessee by next week….”
Me response was “Huh? …. Really?” “In two days?” :D :D :D :D

Well it’s a 30 year old 4 window Ford Van front factory school bus with a diesel engine.
Upgraded sheet metal insulated interior that seats 18!
Do it in two days? Nada gonna happen… gonna take more than that for even a road worthy basic interior redo…
So off we went into the 90 degree 90% humidity to convert the bus….
Strip out the old seats and dispose of to a center for juvenile offenders trades center to be repurposed.
Clean the mank and grunge of who knows how many kinds transported over the last 30 years and 300,000+ miles.
Dig out three HD shelving sheet metal I-beam vertical supports I’d been saving for a project, cut to size, make flange ends & drill.
Install 5/16-18 Rivnuts in the interior sheet metal to mount.
Dig out three hardwood futon base seat frames … two for the bed slats and one for a couch seat base … mount with Rivnuts and screws
Mount six 10 foot 1x3 stained hardwood strips to the walls and ceiling so they can pin up decorations, posters and photos.
Mount hardwood back rest board for couch to protect occupants from windows.
Mad/stain/install filler strip for forward I-beam.
Install three welded shelf brackets with Rivnuts, make a stained 6 foot 10 inch wide lipped routered edge shelf, mount same.
Install two new seat waist belts anchored to the frame (no viable means to mount shoulder belts unfortunately)… best we could do.
Get a slew of 6 inch thick square couch cushions from neighbor who was serendipitously refurbishing his living room furniture (posh 👍).
Add in a slew of nice throw pillows ( from same neighbor 👍), add carpet sections and …..
Drum Roll Please….. Viola! One pseudo quick turn around school bus conversion.

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Wouldn’t say it’s a finished product but the general basis and functions they wanted/needed are there and secure.
The bed frame is not only tabbed to the I-beams but also Velcro wrapped at 9+ locations so it’s not gonna move forward or bounce around in transit or in an accident.
Same holds true with the couch/bench which is solidly secured to the framework (as is the shelf).
Better than the same basic compliance rules/guidance for regular motor home RV campers.

The girls are more than happy.
I’m happy to have helped and have the knowledge that it’s reasonably safe to travel in and use.
The girls did a good portion of the work with a bit of supervision and coaching.
They are both good workers!
Fun!

Now it’s time to get out on the boat for the next several days to recuperate…. :D :D :D :D

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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Russ
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Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by Russ »

SCHOOL BUS
--Russ
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ris
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Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Frostproof Florida

Re: Question about Access: Stern "fins" for fuel vent 26X

Post by ris »

Kind of late to the party but we have two 12 gallon tanks the non-vented kind and I put Vented lids on them so they would not blow up like a bullfrog. We have a complete enclosure and we actually never have problems with fumes. We of course do most of our boating in Canada in the summer or northern New York or the Great Lakes. In the winter, we boat in Florida near our home. Our average time on our boat in the summers are 2 to 3 months. We have a 26X.
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