Would this a Mac survive too?

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bartmac
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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by bartmac » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:20 pm

I can't see a Mac ever being in a situation like this!!.......Not designed for the job

Guess I should have said I don't think any one would be silly enough to go there
Last edited by bartmac on Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NiceAft
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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by NiceAft » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:22 pm

bartmac wrote:I can't see a Mac ever being in a situation like this!!.......Not designed for the job
So, what you mean to say, is that you can't see a Mac ever surviving a situation like that. :D

Ray

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by bartmac » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:29 pm

NO and NO to both......can't imagine putting a Mac in such a situation (ie coming over what I would call a "bar" from the open sea) and definitely would not think it would survive.....I'm surprised the boat in the clip did as well as what it did.I must probably temper my judgement by saying that many rivers in Australia suffer from entrances like the one in the clip but as not many rivers are used commercially except for some commercial fishing and thus virtually none are dredged on a regular basis.There are at least 4 or 5 "bars" within easy driving distances which regularly display large breaking waves due to sand build up.So having watched boats negotiating these bars from the breakwalls on many occasions and having been across a few in larger powerboats...... a Mac would not fare well....that's not being unfair on a Mac just being realistic....its a bit like the saying "no good bringing a knife to a gun fight". It would be interesting to canvas Mac owners on just how many go out to the open sea with the knowledge the only way back would be over a "bar"......I don't think there would be that many....certainly bays and bigger river mouths where there's a chance of finding shelter without having to brave white water!!

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NiceAft
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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by NiceAft » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:50 pm

OK. Take a deep breath and calm down. :D Me, I don't think a Mac would survive. Water flooding into the cabin would make a mess of things. Spreaders bending, and the mast doing the same. Not a good place to be.

The questions posed was would a Mac survive, not are there any of us crazy, foolish, or daredevil enough to do an Admiral Farragut “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead”

Ray

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mastreb
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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by mastreb » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:33 pm

I don't think the rig would survive, but I think the hull would pop back up just fine, even if the companionway was open. The boat will float on its side with the companionway above the waterline. My concern is that the Mac may do a complete roll and pop up the other side, and I question whether anyone could stay aboard above decks in that situation.

Certainly a full keel is a major advantage in that situation.

I do go out to the open ocean relatively routinely and the San Pedro channel where we live can be very big water with depths of 2500 feet just three miles offshore. But it's usually quite calm. But there are no undredged sand bars here to worry about, and while we do have to worry about rollers pushing you around when going into harbor entrances, it's merely dicey not dangerous.

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by kevinnem » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:42 pm

well I watched the video a number of times ... my thoughts....

firstly assume you are in a 26m/x and you chose to come in in the same area, kind of close to the rocks there.. I feel like the larger engine would have helped alot, though I think it would be un-intuitive enough that few of us would have looked at that situation and decided the correct course of action was to put the hammer down.

next if the wave did swamp the back of the boat, would our outboard continue to run with out any havoc? I don't know, someone please enlighting me (someone mentioned they had a small 9.9 that would get swamped...).

lastly when the boat does go over , the mast BARELY goes in the water. In this regard, I don't think the stress would be enough to bend mast or spreaders.

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by bartmac » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:44 pm

Don't worry I'm calm......just the idea of subjecting a Mac to this kind of situation has me rattled.....its actually sport around here to go to various "bars"....no not alcoholic ones and watch idiots attempting crossings.....authorities here have only recently made it mandatory to wear lifejackets when crossing...usually weekend warriors and alcohol does feature in boat usage with disastrous results

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by NiceAft » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:02 pm

Bartmac,

Sometime in the next few years the Admiral and I will be taking a trip to Australia. Maybe we can talk this over in person? 8)

Ray

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by bartmac » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:08 pm

Whilst crossing a bar....this time an alcoholic one!!!! 8)

The main well actually the only reason we own a Mac26X is that under NO circumstances would my wife and partner in life ever cross a bar ....well actually go out to sea....bays,rivers lakes BUT not the sea...so a trailable yacht was the best answer and we do realise its limitations...we call ours our caravan on water with a mast

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by mastreb » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:01 pm

kevinnem wrote:next if the wave did swamp the back of the boat, would our outboard continue to run without any havoc? I don't know, someone please enlighten me (someone mentioned they had a small 9.9 that would get swamped...).
Well let's see: The captain's chair and fuel lockers would flap open. The tanks, if strapped down, should be fine. People whose tanks aren't strapped down would be lost.

Most modern outboards would be fine. If it stalls in the roll, just attempt a restart. If the motor is clearly on but won't turn over, (no "chugging" while trying to start), then it's likely aspirated water into the air intake. Hydrolock (when a cylinder takes in more water than the minimum stroke of the engine) can occur in a roll-over with an outboard; however, it is rarely permanently damaging to outboards because of the low rotating mass of the engine.

If hydrolocked, the engine will stop immediately. You can attempt to start the motor, but if it won't turn over, don't keep trying as you can destroy your starter motor from heat. If it won't start after three or four attempts, you'll have to remove the spark plugs and manually rotate the motor (with the starting rope) to vent the water from the cylinders. Once the motor can rotate without spitting water out the plug holes, you can put the plugs back in and start the motor. It may take quite a bit to start and it may run very rough for a while, but as long as the starter "chugs" a modern engine should eventually start.

Once running, you should let it idle in neutral until its running properly with no missing or revs. You should also run it for at least 30 minutes so the intakes and exhaust can completely dry out. You should do this as soon as possible to avoid corrosion damage to the motor. If you let it sit for more than a few days, it may never start again without an overhaul.

There is a chance that you can damage a hydrolocked motor by attempting to start it. However, the only fix in that case is the labor equivalent to an top-end rebuild, which is the same fix as if you damage the engine trying to start it, so I personally don't see any reason not to try.

The simpler valving of a two stroke makes them less susceptible to hydrolocking and more likely to drain without removing plugs.

Matt

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2BonC
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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by 2BonC » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:13 am

did I miss something?
My questions:
1. Who made the pictures of this dramatic situation?
2. Who ever did it, why didn´t they come to rescue the victims?
...after all isn´t this a fake?

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by sirlandsalot » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:22 am

Not denying the decision making process here,


But I think a mac would of easily had the speed to motor in between sets and stay ahead of the wave that got them. He almost made it, but he didn't have the speed. I also think a mac would have been better suited to perform the rescue with the power available.

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by Highlander » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:34 am

A good Mac Skipper would have been fine using his ponies to stay on the back of the forward swell & riding her in safely , the skipper got himself caught in the bottom of the following breaking swell whether due to lack of power or undue attention ! , I think he may have eased up on the power a little to soon thinking he had made a safe entry , maybe not paying due attention due to too much undo conversation with none crew !!

J
PS Good recovery & all were safe assuming everyone has pfd on as no attemp was made to through any life rings ?

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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by RobertB » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:05 am

The people in the water were pretty much on their own - looks like the skipper decided putting the large boat near them for a rescue would put them in more danger. He may have also radioed for help (as provided by the smaller speedboats). The only way I think he could have performed any kind of rescue would have been to throw a line and pull them to calmer water.

Two basic issues about a Mac. Could it have survived the assault of the waves - really I have nothing to go on, I thin the hull would be fine but the situation would be a big mess. the other issue is could our OB and planing hull capable of 14 knot plus a few gained by surfing have kept this from happening.? I think a Mac would have more of a sporting chance to make the passage without getting clobbered.

Lastly, I like to think I would avoid such a situation but anyone who participated in the last MuckAbout may question my judgement :) (I made it to the planned rendezvous the first night at Hart Miller Island!)

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BOAT
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Re: Would this a Mac survive too?

Post by BOAT » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:56 am

We do get this kind of thing here at my harbor sometimes because of a shoal and very narrow entrance - we have the rocks on each side too and when entering our harbor the waves are ALWAYS breaking on the port side no matter what the swell size is. Over the past few days it got to 12 feet so you get breakers on both sides. We see small fishing boats pitch pole all the time.

You do get used to it but still, in my opinion the key is to always take your time, never be in a hurry, and keep everyone down low in the boat. Most of my experience coming in through that stuff is under sail because on my previous boat under sail was faster than the motor and more stable. I think with 'boat', the 26M I would probably opt to power in and with the kind of speed that 'boat' can achieve I could out run those swells.

There are times when you look at the situation, and you realize that there is a possibility that things may go very bad. That's something my dad was real good about, when facing a real danger he would talk it over with me very seriously, and he would ask me what I think even though I was only 15 years old he always included me in the strategy if we were facing a danger. Still, there were some basic things that we always did before entering the danger zone:
Stow Everything
BATTEN THE HATCHES! (To me that means close the companionway).
Put on life jackets
Wear lifelines on deck
And in this case radio ahead to the harbormaster to let them know you coming in. Sometimes they don't even know that boats are trying to enter the harbor. This helped a lot one time entering Avalon Bay during a bad wind storm. They sent out a boat to guide us in.

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