Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

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JeffJuneau
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Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by JeffJuneau » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:39 pm

Hi, This is the frame I have come up with to support the tarp on my 26M from a potential 100 to 200 inches of wet snow this winter. Will probably add additional supports to deal with spreading forces on the stanchions and padding on the contact points between frame and tarp. Hope it works. :)
Image

Image

Image

K9Kampers
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by K9Kampers » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:21 pm

Looks great!

This is what I've been using for for 14 years. Have improved it a little bit each year. The wood strong back is supported by three stations independent of the mast and two additional supports between the strong back and mast. There is also a support between the mast and the boat. In this pic, it is hard to see the the many horizontal PVC braces between the five vertical bow frames.

A 20' x 30' heavy duty tarp drawn tautly sheds snow well while brooming off the heavy stuff after storms. Sometimes I've had to get underneath the tarp to push off the snow / ice that pockets and sags between the frames/braces.

Image

P.S.- this is my first effort at posting pics with postimage, very intuitive process. I may be inclined to post more of my set up - for the archives.

JeffJuneau
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by JeffJuneau » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:29 am

Nice, K9campers ! Let me know how it works this winter. Do you get a lot of snow? Last year I had something like that on my previous boat, but we had so much wet snow sometimes followed by a freeze, rain and then another snow cycle, that I had to clean mine constantly to keep it from collapsing. The frost would adhere to the tarp creating a lot of friction, then, once it snowed, I didn't have enough slope to force the snow to slide off. I had to clean mine every day during a snow storm. Hopefully we aren't both cleaning our Macs constantly this winter! Jeff

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Russ
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by Russ » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:23 am

Look good Jeff.

The slope is important. I've had about a foot of wet snow on mine and the only time my arches failed was when one of the arches collapsed. It pulled the mast down to the deck. I thought I was about to buy a new mast. Once I shoveled the snow off it snapped right back. 8)
--Russ

JeffJuneau
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by JeffJuneau » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:06 am

Thanks Russ, That is amazing but reassuring that the mast can take that type of bend and not be damaged. I know that aluminum bike frames do not like to be bent very far before they fail. I think the PO of my boat did did very little to keep the snow off last year. We had at least 100 inches of snow last year, but he said he just used a tarp with no other support. That reminds me of a question I had about how much play should be in the rotating mast base. If there was a lot of snow load on my mast last year (before I bought it) could the aluminum base of the mast that the hex head cap screw goes through get bent or damaged? I have looked at mine, and in addition to it rotating freely with a few washers that are installed, it seems to have some sideways articulation too. I don't know what the normal amount of lateral tilt the mast base should have though. Is there a way to verify what is normal?
Thanks, Jeff

DaveC426913
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by DaveC426913 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:24 pm

Have you considered building a shelter independent of the boat? i.e. a shed?

Then you don't have to compromise anything for weight or whatever. Your shed is build to withstand the weather and you don't need to proctect anything else like mast or stanchions or what-have-you.
MacX 2000 Honda BF50A 'SeaSaw'

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BOAT
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by BOAT » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:49 pm

i made a mid ship mast support that goes on the tabernacle and supports the mast from bending - if anyone is interested i can send a picture

JeffJuneau
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by JeffJuneau » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:30 am

Hi Dave, Yes, I did consider a shelter, but there isn't sufficient room between my foundation and my neighbor's property line for a 30+ foot long 11' high structure. :)

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Russ
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by Russ » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:06 am

JeffJuneau wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:06 am
That reminds me of a question I had about how much play should be in the rotating mast base. If there was a lot of snow load on my mast last year (before I bought it) could the aluminum base of the mast that the hex head cap screw goes through get bent or damaged? I have looked at mine, and in addition to it rotating freely with a few washers that are installed, it seems to have some sideways articulation too. I don't know what the normal amount of lateral tilt the mast base should have though. Is there a way to verify what is normal?
Thanks, Jeff
I replace the washers with thrust bearings from BWY. It's been there now for years without issue.
Perhaps you need to tighten it up. It should rotate freely, but not have much wiggle.

The problem I have is the mast, while in the crutch, wants to rotate sidways where it is more likely to sag and bend. I've taken to strapping it so it can't rotate.

The cover worked well for years with the exception of one year when the mast rotated and the center support popped out and the snow bent the mast down to the deck. No pic of that.
Image

Now I simply store it under a roof.
Image
--Russ

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Herschel
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by Herschel » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:01 pm

Living in Central Florida I have no business on this thread, but I do have one experience with covering my boat with a tarp that might prove useful. During the horrible hurricane season of 2004 when we got Charlie, Jean and Francis all within a six week span, I thought I would be smart and cover my boat with the snow tarp that the PO had given me when I bought my Mac in Detroit the year before. Long story as short as possible, I failed to adequately close off the tarp in the stern. That night Charlie came roaring through the space between my home and the neighbor as a Cat 2. My tarp suddenly became a spinnaker. :o Rolled the whole boat and trailer about 50 feet into the street where a young pine loaded with bougainvillea vine perchance fell over the boat. Thankfully, only the mast crutch was bent as the tree and bougainvillea spread lay across the mast and boat. The whole street was blocked and my boat looked like huge white casket with a spread of bright red flowers over it the next morning. My point: secure those tarps against strong winds. :wink:

JeffJuneau
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by JeffJuneau » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:14 pm

Hi, Thanks Russ and I will see if tightening the mast hex head cap screw removes some of the slop. It didn't seem to be an operational problem when the mast is up, but I am sure that I can tighten it a bit without impacting the the spinning movement of the mast. I suppose that more than a 1/4 of a turn would lower the mast a touch and would that impact how the forestay should be adjusted maybe? Also, Herschel, your vivid description of your boat ending up in the road, looking like a casket with a red wreath on it had me cracking up until I imagined how horrified I would be if that happened to me. I will fasten my tarp down well...promise. The wheels (rims and tires) will be off too, in case we get hit with hurricane force winds! That should slow it down. :)

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Herschel
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by Herschel » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:25 pm

JeffJuneau wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:14 pm
Hi, Thanks Russ and I will see if tightening the mast hex head cap screw removes some of the slop. It didn't seem to be an operational problem when the mast is up, but I am sure that I can tighten it a bit without impacting the the spinning movement of the mast. I suppose that more than a 1/4 of a turn would lower the mast a touch and would that impact how the forestay should be adjusted maybe? Also, Herschel, your vivid description of your boat ending up in the road, looking like a casket with a red wreath on it had me cracking up until I imagined how horrified I would be if that happened to me. I will fasten my tarp down well...promise. The wheels (rims and tires) will be off too, in case we get hit with hurricane force winds! That should slow it down. :)
Good luck up there. Yes, having the wheels off sounds like a good idea. I was new to the world of "large mobile toys" and had not learned about wheel chocks, yet. I use the same tarp on my travel trailer as we speak. And the wheels are well chocked. 8)

Snowdancer
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by Snowdancer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:35 am

Snow shed. I was investigating stanchion removal info for my snow shed when i came opon these threads. Also suggest periodic RV antifreeze for transom drain.
The photo of the high pitched would frame looks very good. A tight high pitched tarp works in Revelstoke BC. Ensure there are no pockets to collect snow. I have used rope, when I ran out of shrink wrap tape, to keep the tarp from flapping but it collects snow,
I can tell you what didnt work for my 26x, resulting in a bent mast and holder plus a broken pedestal. ,i moved it to Enderby BC from Revelstoke BC where they have very llittle snow until The biggest snow year in Enderby and no inspection and snow and water collection caused my tarp to act as a big swimming pool on one side of the cockpit.
I tried using the mast as the spine with the mast holder and additional vertical wooden sypports on the mast. Then I only used lathe as ribs from the mast to the edge of the boat, duh!, to support the tarp
The lifeline stanchions will collect snow!
Last year worked better, I eliminated the mast as a spine.
used a folded 8 foot hot tub cover over the cabin. Two framed 4x8 lattice fence sections over cockpit, both were braced by the stanchions. and saw horses with trimmed panel boards over the bow, all covered with a tarp.
A fellow Mac owner suggested I remove the snow a few times when it got over 2 feet high, collecting on the spine and stanchions and I am glad I did, as some of the worn out lattice broke a bit. Also needed frequent snow removal around stern stanchions. Glad I jacked up the axles.

JeffJuneau
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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by JeffJuneau » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:55 pm

Thanks for the information Snowdancer. I have always wanted to ski Revelstoke because of their massive dumps of powder. If your Mac winter setup survives there, it will survive anywhere. I purchased an extremely heavy duty poly tarp. With this framework, it is sloped so steeply that I am pretty sure there is nowhere for the water and ice to collect. Hopefully we will both be dancing in the powder this winter without worry about how our Mac's are doing with the snow load. Jeff

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Re: Winter frame for 100 + inches of snow

Post by Starscream » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:40 pm

One piece of advice for anyone tarping their boat for the winter: attach each tarp grommet to the trailer individually. If you attach the grommet to the mating one on the other side, and one grommet rips out, then you lose two grommets and losing the third and fourth becomes increasingly likely. Wind is the killer, if it gets under the tarp.

Also, drain holes in the tarp are not a bad idea, especially inboard of the cockpit seat-backs. Freeze-thaw cycles can build up ice that make the tarp sag into the cockpit and become super heavy and impossible to remove. Been there.

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