Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

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SlowSL
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Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by SlowSL »

So I'm having a mainsail made, and I'm second guessing the cloth weight that I should use. It will have two reefs, 2nd being fairly deep, close to where the OEM is. I mentioned to the sailmaker that I'd be out in the stronger winds frequently (as long as I'm not overpowered, obviously), around the Great Lakes, as well as some coastal cruising, and that I'd like that the sail be a little more on the durable side. The original quote was with 7.1oz. cloth. The cloth is Challenge high modulus, and challenge recommends that boats in the 25-30 foot range use a minimum of 6.7oz. I noticed a few off the shelf sails (BWY, Rolly Tasker, etc.) for the Mac's are 4oz. economy, 5oz. for daysailing, and the offshore is 6oz. I don't doubt 7.1oz. will be rugged enough, but my concern now is if it will hold any sort of useful shape in the lighter wind..., say 6-7 knots or so? Should I go with 6oz. or stick with the 7.1oz?
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Starscream »

I added new sails last year, made from 6oz Dacron from Precision Sails.

Comparing the original and the new sails is like comparing cardboard and toilet paper. I can't imagine a Mac needing anything more than 6oz.

I had to make a new sailcover 6" taller than the original. Then I had to make another even taller than that. The new sail is so stiff that I can't lower it without a downhaul. The old sails just dropped straight down to the boom.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by SlowSL »

Starscream wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:37 pm I added new sails last year, made from 6oz Dacron from Precision Sails.

Comparing the original and the new sails is like comparing cardboard and toilet paper. I can't imagine a Mac needing anything more than 6oz.

I had to make a new sailcover 6" taller than the original. Then I had to make another even taller than that. The new sail is so stiff that I can't lower it without a downhaul. The old sails just dropped straight down to the boom.
Wow, that is good info. 6oz. is the thickest I've seen off the shelf for the Macgregor, but didn't think there would be that much of a difference going between 5-6oz. or 6-7oz. Just browsing other sails for other boats similar in boat size, a lot of those sails are 7oz. Do you know what brand Dacron they used on your sail?
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Starscream »

I'm not sure of the brand. I'm pretty sure the brand they use changes based on what's most logical for Precision Sails at any given time. They said that the sailcloth could be from: Dimension-Polyant, Bainbridge International or Challenge Sailcloth, but I guess at the end of the day it could be anything.

Overall I'm very happy with them, but I didn't get a ton of hours on them last season. I have to say, the loose-foot is waaaay easier to set up and take down.

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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by PSNA »

6 oz. sail material for both the main and working jib. 5 oz for the 150% genoa.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by PSNA »

Starscream wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:29 am I'm not sure of the brand. I'm pretty sure the brand they use changes based on what's most logical for Precision Sails at any given time. They said that the sailcloth could be from: Dimension-Polyant, Bainbridge International or Challenge Sailcloth, but I guess at the end of the day it could be anything.

Overall I'm very happy with them, but I didn't get a ton of hours on them last season. I have to say, the loose-foot is waaaay easier to set up and take down.

Image
Are you saying that this company could not even tell you what sail material was used on your order? That makes no sense whatsoever.

No one should be purchasing new sails without knowing who produced the material, the weight, and more importantly; the specific model or brand.

One other note. Your headsail has not been installed correctly. Either the luff length of the sail is too long or you need to raise it further to eliminate the problem at the bottom.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Starscream »

PSNA wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:13 am
Are you saying that this company could not even tell you what sail material was used on your order? That makes no sense whatsoever.

No one should be purchasing new sails without knowing who produced the material, the weight, and more importantly; the specific model or brand.

One other note. Your headsail has not been installed correctly. Either the luff length of the sail is too long or you need to raise it further to eliminate the problem at the bottom.
Good eye! That was the first outing with the sail, the problem was caused by the HUGE tack-ring they put on the jib: waaay too big to fit in the tiny loop of the CDI furler. For that sail I had a short piece of 1/8" line with a double-bowline knot holding the jib in place. Now I have a better system, with a stainless snap hook clipping into the furler.

At Precision Sails you pick your level of quality: they call it Precision 300, 400 or 500, depending on the type of sailing you do. I chose Precision 300, the cheapest, and then you work out the final details when the designer calls you back. TBH I don't remember if I changed any details during the ordering process; there was a lot of back-and forth about graphics and draft stripes, and battens, cloths and reefing. Overall I was happy with the process, but there were some little things, like the jib tack, that they could have got better. I think both sails with the graphics must have been around $1800 CDN or thereabouts. Lol. I should track that invoice down.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by PSNA »

Pretty pricey. But they do look good.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Starscream »

Thanks, I DO like the way they look.

I looked up the invoice from Precision Sails.
The sail cloth is listed as Precision series Designer Dacron 6, and I have no recollection of how we arrived there. Must have made sense at the time. If I had to do it over again I'd ask if there was a lighter material, because these sails are overkill for the way we use our boat.
With one reef, cunningham, Sunbrella UV strip for the jib, custom graphics, and four partial battens for the mainsail, the total price including delivery was $940.05 for the Mainsail and $844.20 for the jib. Canadian dollars though, so somewhere between $1,400 and $1,500 USD. I actually thought that was a pretty good all-in price?
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Inquisitor »

Starscream wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:15 am Thanks, I DO like the way they look.

I looked up the invoice from Precision Sails.
The sail cloth is listed as Precision series Designer Dacron 6, and I have no recollection of how we arrived there. Must have made sense at the time. If I had to do it over again I'd ask if there was a lighter material, because these sails are overkill for the way we use our boat.
With one reef, cunningham, Sunbrella UV strip for the jib, custom graphics, and four partial battens for the mainsail, the total price including delivery was $940.05 for the Mainsail and $844.20 for the jib. Canadian dollars though, so somewhere between $1,400 and $1,500 USD. I actually thought that was a pretty good all-in price?
The $ conversions the other way... $940 Canada = $752 US. Yes... sounds like a very good deal.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by PSNA »

$1,500.00 is more realistic. However, what is "Designer Dacron"? " "Dacron" is a trade name owned by Dupont for its polyester product. The word is used today like "Coke" and "Kleenex". Sail material manufacturers generally offer a line of 5 to 6 grades of woven polyester in addition to weights and they range from cheap to expensive. Additionally, some of these products are produced in low and high aspect versions to match the boat's rig. Personally, I would want to know the material manufacturer and product name. Even if you are not aware of the differences, it still provides the opportunity to price shop. I wouldn't pay for a cunningham either as none of the MacGregor rigs are set up for one. I would assume the MacGregor 65 has one though.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Starscream »

Hmm, I'll ask and see if they can tell me the material. I totally don't remember if that came up in the design discussion, but I presume I must have been satisfied with their explanation.

Right on the Cunningham. Useless for me...they put it on all the sails automatically it seems. Tbh I'm a mac-sailor with zero formal training (I read a few chapters of Sailing for Dummies, though, and spent a few years learning the ropes on a Siren 17) so I didn't even know what all the extra lines were for and had to ask. I'm the reason why "real" sailors seem to hate macs so much, I guess.
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by PSNA »

If you own a sailboat and you use it, you are a "real" sailor".

I doubt anyone actually hates you for owning a Mac. They may hate the boat though.

Every boat built has its strengths and weaknesses. There isn't a perfect one out there.

It doesn't make any difference what your own, the feeble-minded and snobs will tear down anything. The Catalina folks hate Hunters and the Beneteau owners hate the Catalinas and Hunters. It was that way many moons ago when I was a kid and it remains that way today.

Enjoy YOUR ride and don't waste time wondering what people are saying.

I would hazard to guess that Macs actually get used more during a typical sailing season than most of the dock queens.

My dad owned a Venture 17, MacGregor 25 and a 26C. I had a ball on all three growing up. The 26C was my favorite of the group. Yes, my feelings were hurt on several occasions at the club when people would rip on them without knowing it was my dad's boat.

.....but then I grew up!
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Re: Appropriate mainsail sailcloth weight.

Post by Be Free »

I have had face-to-face conversations with sailors in many countries and in many places here in the US. The majority of them are genuinely interested in my experiences with the boat. They are aware of its reputation in the forums but are anxious to get a first-hand report from someone who actually sails one. I tell them that just like every boat it has its strengths and its weaknesses. Just like everything that has ever been designed, it is the sum total of the engineering and economic compromises based on the priorities of the builder. There is no such thing as the "perfect" boat, but there can be the perfect boat for you. You are the only person who can make that decision and anyone who thinks otherwise can "pound sand".

The only places I hear unbridled "Mac" bashing is on online forums. It's just the ones hiding behind some level of anonymity who speak this way. The comments are almost invariably prefaced with something like, "I've never owned one, in fact I would not even set foot on one, but...". That tells me a lot more about their own character and judgement that whatever the point was they thought they were making.

I suspect PSNA is also a motorcycle rider. The axiom that you should "Ride your own ride" and not be influenced by others around you is one of the things new riders (and new MacGregor owners) have to learn to stay in the sport long term.

Starscream, you are most certainly a sailor. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We are all here to help you get the most out of your Mac and if the time ever comes when you decide you need something else you will only hear "fair winds, and following seas" from MacGregor owners.
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