Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

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Shane anthony
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Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

Hello, I’m new to boating and bought a 26M to learn how to sail it. I’m wanting to keep it in the water at my local marina here in the PNW Puyallup area. It has no bottom coatings and wanted to DIY it’s currently at my house on a section of crushed gravel next to my driveway. I wanted to do the work there because it was be a pain to try to coordinate parking for three people if I put it on the concrete driveway. But if that is going to make things a lot easier I would do it. After reading some other posts I was thinking of lowering the trailer in front and blocking or buying stands to put under the transom area then blocking or putting stands under the front. I was thinking of temporarily taking the bunks off to give me some working room between the trailer and bottom of the boat? I’m unsure as to the safe placement of stands to do this. And I do understand the importance of have O’shyt backup jackstands to prevent from getting crushed. Any advice would be much appreciated thank you.
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Stickinthemud57
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Stickinthemud57 »

Welcome to the forum!

Full disclosure - I own a 26S, so your mileage may vary...

First question - Are you keeping it in fresh water or salt water? If in fresh water, my advice would be first to see if keeping it in the water will lead to blistering of the gel coat. I keep mine in fresh water, and pull it out for about three months in the winter. Frankly, I wonder whether the work I did was even necessary. Perhaps others who keep their boats in fresh water with an untreated gel coat bottom can offer their advice. Antifouling paint does not really help against algae, and I have found it easy enough to clean the bottom with a 6" plastic putty knife, in the water or on the trailer.

If in salt water, you will definitely want to apply antifouling, but manufacturer's recommendations typically call for application of a protection barrier (in my case 5 coats of Interprotect 2000E epoxy paint).

I recommend you do any bottom work with the boat and trailer on the driveway, for reasons of both comfort and safety.

In my case I decided to build cribs to support the front and aft and get the trailer out of the way. I will not attempt to give directions on how to build these. Suffice it to say they are essentially overbuilt and overbraced sawhorses with V-shaped provisions for spreading the load above the horizontal top portions. I pulled the trailer and boat up on auto work ramps, lowered the tongue of the trailer as far as I could, then built and placed the back crib. After raising the tongue as far as possible (thus lifting the stern off the trailer), I built a gantry about 10' high and 12' wide and used a cable hoist and heavy nylon strap to lift the bow. This allowed me to remove the trailer. The bow was then lowered on the the forward crib. My wife was not thrilled with this arrangement. Something about being OK being a boat widow, but only in the figurative sense. :wink: This gave me room I needed to apply and sand the multiple coats of Interprotect 2000E (as recommended before applying anti-fouling paint. IMPORTANT NOTE - THE 26S IS SIGNIFICANTLY LIGHTER THAN THE M. YOUR CRIBS AND LIFT GANTRY AND HARDWARE WILL HAVE TO BE CONSIDERABLY BEEFIER THAN MINE.

When it was time to recoat the bottom I was determined to find a safer and easier way. I still pulled the trailer up on the work ramps, but left the boat on the trailer. I only had to brush on a coat of anti-fouling paint, so working around the bunks was easy enough, moving the boat back on the trailer a bit with a reverse Mac bump so I could get to those areas. This might not work if the bunks on your trailer are not all transverse, as they are on the S. I also made the centerboard support removable to facilitate access and removal of the centerboard.

It was a lot of work, and given the time and risk involved it may well have been better to pay someone to do the work. Since I keep my boat in fresh water, I really wonder now whether I should have done it at all.

Image
The key to inner peace is to admit you have a problem and leave it at that.
Shane anthony
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:44 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: 98375

Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

Thanks for the reply! You’re definitely a capable carpenter/engineer. I’m probably not going to go that route as my wife has been asking questions about my plans to lift the boat and crawl under it, Boat widow kinds of questions. Was thinking about a Gohoist and boat stands? Or maybe leaving the trailer underneath and just jacking it up with the trailer jack (wheel removed) building some blocking for the stern and removing the bunks for clearance and putting a tarp over the trailer for protection? I like your automotive ramp use but I have dual axle trailer. I live close to Commencement Bay (salt water) but an hour away from me is Lake Washington so I’m weighing the pros and cons of the two locations. But was told you definitely need bottom paint even in Lake Washington by the local marina. I did read some on the prep and process of first solvent cleaning then 80 grit sanding then solvent cleaning and applying barrier (epoxy primer) coats first before bottom paint. I haven’t watched any videos on using the trailer jack and blocking the stern but it seems like a common practice? But maybe just for re coating bottom paint not the first more intensive job of prepping for bottom paint? I’d appreciate your thoughts knowledge of possible using a single Gohoist (i don’t want to afford the cost of two) and stands. I still don’t understand the use or safety of boat stands where would they be placed and do they hook them together somehow to prevent them from sliding out from under the boat because of the angle of the bottom of the boat where they’re placed? Thank You again👍🏻
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Starscream
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Starscream »

Shane anthony wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:26 am Hello, I’m new to boating and bought a 26M to learn how to sail it. I’m wanting to keep it in the water at my local marina here in the PNW Puyallup area. It has no bottom coatings and wanted to DIY it’s currently at my house on a section of crushed gravel next to my driveway. I wanted to do the work there because it was be a pain to try to coordinate parking for three people if I put it on the concrete driveway. But if that is going to make things a lot easier I would do it. After reading some other posts I was thinking of lowering the trailer in front and blocking or buying stands to put under the transom area then blocking or putting stands under the front. I was thinking of temporarily taking the bunks off to give me some working room between the trailer and bottom of the boat? I’m unsure as to the safe placement of stands to do this. And I do understand the importance of have O’shyt backup jackstands to prevent from getting crushed. Any advice would be much appreciated thank you.
You may have already seen this, but here is how I did my bottom coat with the boat on blocks above the trailer:

viewtopic.php?t=27626&hilit=2000e
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dlandersson
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by dlandersson »

Ok, you're likley going to want more than one coat. I suggest three, alternating white and black so you can ensure good coverage. ;)
Shane anthony
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

Thanks for all the advice and previous posts, it certainly makes things easier on a not so easy mission 👍🏻
OverEasy
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Shane Anthony!

If you go with standard boat stands they must be placed on a firm non penetrating surface so they don’t settle into the ground.
Especially if the ground EVER get wet… like when it rains….. :o :?
Standard boat stands are required to be chained together side to side so they don’t spread apart. Typically up higher rather than at ground level. Some of the better yards chain them high and low as well as fore and aft. Remember “GRAVITY ALWAYS WINS”.

AN EPOXY BARRIER PAINT COATING OF AT LEAST TWO COATINGS IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
This is generally a ‘one and done’ type of thing unless you wear through it to the gelcoat but generally only requires touch up of the affected area involved.

CAVEAT: IF YOU ARE AT ALL HESITANT ABOUT DOING THIS YOURSELF PLEASE FIND A GOOD QUALIFIED BOAT YARD TO DO THIS FOR YOU. THEY WILL BE ABLE TO WET BLAST IT FOR YOU (better than hand sanding), apply the barrier epoxy paint and ablative bottom paint more safely, professionally and in considerably less time. While this may cost it is a balancing act between time, cost and SAFETY.

Your best option for a trailer motor sailer like our MacGregors is to use an ablative bottom paint rather than a hard coat or copper coat.
Ablatives stay active in and out and in and out of both fresh water, salt water and brackish water.
Ablatives wear away over time so duration is dependent upon usage rate and boat speed and duration in water.
If you mainly sail and do so only for a couple dozen days a year then it can last for several years or more. Clean up after haul out should be a relatively gentle fresh water rinse and a soft sponge without soap. Avoid pressure washing if you want it to last longer. A compliant (soft) plastic scraper helps dislodge the film and crusty cruds.

Hard coatings, especially those with copper must get into salt water shortly after the coating dries and STAY wet otherwise they oxidize and stop working unless sanded again to reexpose the copper or other metallics. The copper particles convert in saltwater to cuperious sulfate ((04/08/24 CORRECTION: Actual chemistry in salt water is for the copper to first convert to cuprous oxide and then to cupric hydrochloride)) to retard marine growth. Periodic resanding for exposure is required even while it is in the water for the same reason over time.
These hard coatings don’t work in fresh water because ((typically)) lacks the salt required for the chemical reactions to occur that make the copper sulfate biocide.

Now if you do a lot of running about at high speed using your motor (like we are often doing as we use our Mac26X as a cruiser) then you might/will get fewer years from your ablative coating. Important trick is to be GENTLE when cleaning upon haul out.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Last edited by OverEasy on Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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kurz
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by kurz »

I put Coppercoat on 8 years ago.
No other coat since then. Keep the :macm: all year in the water.

In spring/summer I clean it in the lake with a brush. Thats it...
OverEasy
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Kurz!

Great to hear that Coppercoat is working for you in a lake environment.
It my understanding though that it needs salt water for the chemical reaction to work properly.

Per the Coppercoat informational materials :
Image
Image
Image

When we first started out with Over Easy we had a very very very old and well worn away ablative bottom paint without any epoxy barrier paint applied. We could see the original white gelcoat showing through over more than 50% of the remaining worn ablative bottom paint.
In fresh water use we didn’t have any marine growth issues even with 70 nights on Lake Champlain.

When we subsequently put Over Easy in our local brackish (mixed salt & fresh) water for 90 days the marine growth was ridiculous!
It was horrible! Well over an inch thick and this was with us using our boat as a cruiser 4 out of 7 days per week. So we did some research and talked with Coppercoat and various ablative paint manufacturers, particularly about our planned extended usage in both fresh and salt or brackish water. Coppercoat was quite upfront with us in that it’s product was designed for salt and brackish water use to get the chemistry to work. They didn’t really recommend Coppercoat for fresh water application except that it would act as a osmotic barrier epoxy paint. They made mention of the need to reactivate the surface with light sanding or power wash when out of the water for a period of time.

With the ablative bottom paint it works regardless of being in salt, fresh or brackish waters regardless of duration in or out of the water or if periodically moving in/out or between differing environments randomly. This fit for our current and future anticipated boat use plans. The limitation is that an ablative wears away by design so periodic recoatings are recommended (depending on actual usage). In our case as we spend a lot of time on the water and motoring at about 10-to-15 mph that would be about every two to three years. Occasional weekend users that spend their non use time out of the water on their trailer it will last considerably longer. One cautionary aspect to mention is AVOID pressure washing the ablative bottom paint. Use fresh water and a soft or medium sponge to clean the hull to minimize artificially abrading away the bottom paint.

Now this is just what we found out for our anticipated useages.
One needs to do one’s own research and make decisions for their own anticipated usage.
There is no one answer as individual use plans differ.

Hi Shane Anthony!
One thing to do is to drop your keel and protect it as well.
Marine growth just loves to get into every nook and cranny!
Been there, done that! :o :|

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Shane anthony
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:44 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: 98375

Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

Starscream wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:11 am
Shane anthony wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:26 am Hello, I’m new to boating and bought a 26M to learn how to sail it. I’m wanting to keep it in the water at my local marina here in the PNW Puyallup area. It has no bottom coatings and wanted to DIY it’s currently at my house on a section of crushed gravel next to my driveway. I wanted to do the work there because it was be a pain to try to coordinate parking for three people if I put it on the concrete driveway. But if that is going to make things a lot easier I would do it. After reading some other posts I was thinking of lowering the trailer in front and blocking or buying stands to put under the transom area then blocking or putting stands under the front. I was thinking of temporarily taking the bunks off to give me some working room between the trailer and bottom of the boat? I’m unsure as to the safe placement of stands to do this. And I do understand the importance of have O’shyt backup jackstands to prevent from getting crushed. Any advice would be much appreciated thank you.
You may have already seen this, but here is how I did my bottom coat with the boat on blocks above the trailer:

viewtopic.php?t=27626&hilit=2000e
Thanks! All this info is appreciated, it’s either going to help me do a better job of it or make me decide to have someone else do it.😂
Shane anthony
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Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: 98375

Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

Stickinthemud57 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 9:53 am Welcome to the forum!

Full disclosure - I own a 26S, so your mileage may vary...

First question - Are you keeping it in fresh water or salt water? If in fresh water, my advice would be first to see if keeping it in the water will lead to blistering of the gel coat. I keep mine in fresh water, and pull it out for about three months in the winter. Frankly, I wonder whether the work I did was even necessary. Perhaps others who keep their boats in fresh water with an untreated gel coat bottom can offer their advice. Antifouling paint does not really help against algae, and I have found it easy enough to clean the bottom with a 6" plastic putty knife, in the water or on the trailer.

If in salt water, you will definitely want to apply antifouling, but manufacturer's recommendations typically call for application of a protection barrier (in my case 5 coats of Interprotect 2000E epoxy paint).

I recommend you do any bottom work with the boat and trailer on the driveway, for reasons of both comfort and safety.

In my case I decided to build cribs to support the front and aft and get the trailer out of the way. I will not attempt to give directions on how to build these. Suffice it to say they are essentially overbuilt and overbraced sawhorses with V-shaped provisions for spreading the load above the horizontal top portions. I pulled the trailer and boat up on auto work ramps, lowered the tongue of the trailer as far as I could, then built and placed the back crib. After raising the tongue as far as possible (thus lifting the stern off the trailer), I built a gantry about 10' high and 12' wide and used a cable hoist and heavy nylon strap to lift the bow. This allowed me to remove the trailer. The bow was then lowered on the the forward crib. My wife was not thrilled with this arrangement. Something about being OK being a boat widow, but only in the figurative sense. :wink: This gave me room I needed to apply and sand the multiple coats of Interprotect 2000E (as recommended before applying anti-fouling paint. IMPORTANT NOTE - THE 26S IS SIGNIFICANTLY LIGHTER THAN THE M. YOUR CRIBS AND LIFT GANTRY AND HARDWARE WILL HAVE TO BE CONSIDERABLY BEEFIER THAN MINE.

When it was time to recoat the bottom I was determined to find a safer and easier way. I still pulled the trailer up on the work ramps, but left the boat on the trailer. I only had to brush on a coat of anti-fouling paint, so working around the bunks was easy enough, moving the boat back on the trailer a bit with a reverse Mac bump so I could get to those areas. This might not work if the bunks on your trailer are not all transverse, as they are on the S. I also made the centerboard support removable to facilitate access and removal of the centerboard.

It was a lot of work, and given the time and risk involved it may well have been better to pay someone to do the work. Since I keep my boat in fresh water, I really wonder now whether I should have done it at all.

Image
Thanks for the reply👍🏻great info and I’m definitely considering the safety aspect of it. I’m going to keep the trailer under it no matter what. I’ll be able to block the trailer wheels and keep the bow chained to it to prevent any back and forth movements. I’m pretty clumsy so the only way I’ve managed to survive for the next project is 100% safety with plenty of redundancy.
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Stickinthemud57
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Stickinthemud57 »

Shane anthony wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:35 am ...safety with plenty of redundancy.
You can say that again!

I was brave enough to do what I did only because I saw some photos where someone used cribs like the ones in my pics to block up their keelboat. I figured if I went with that design I would be OK with my 1650 lb boat.
The key to inner peace is to admit you have a problem and leave it at that.
Shane anthony
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:44 am
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Location: 98375

Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

OverEasy wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2024 11:44 am Hi Shane Anthony!

If you go with standard boat stands they must be placed on a firm non penetrating surface so they don’t settle into the ground.
Especially if the ground EVER get wet… like when it rains….. :o :?
Standard boat stands are required to be chained together side to side so they don’t spread apart. Typically up higher rather than at ground level. Some of the better yards chain them high and low as well as fore and aft. Remember “GRAVITY ALWAYS WINS”.

AN EPOXY BARRIER PAINT COATING OF AT LEAST TWO COATINGS IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
This is generally a ‘one and done’ type of thing unless you wear through it to the gelcoat but generally only requires touch up of the affected area involved.

CAVEAT: IF YOU ARE AT ALL HESITANT ABOUT DOING THIS YOURSELF PLEASE FIND A GOOD QUALIFIED BOAT YARD TO DO THIS FOR YOU. THEY WILL BE ABLE TO WET BLAST IT FOR YOU (better than hand sanding), apply the barrier epoxy paint and ablative bottom paint more safely, professionally and in considerably less time. While this may cost it is a balancing act between time, cost and SAFETY.

Your best option for a trailer motor sailer like our MacGregors is to use an ablative bottom paint rather than a hard coat or copper coat.
Ablatives stay active in and out and in and out of both fresh water, salt water and brackish water.
Ablatives wear away over time so duration is dependent upon usage rate and boat speed and duration in water.
If you mainly sail and do so only for a couple dozen days a year then it can last for several years or more. Clean up after haul out should be a relatively gentle fresh water rinse and a soft sponge without soap. Avoid pressure washing if you want it to last longer. A compliant (soft) plastic scraper helps dislodge the film and crusty cruds.

Hard coatings, especially those with copper must get into salt water shortly after the coating dries and STAY wet otherwise they oxidize and stop working unless sanded again to reexpose the copper or other metallics. The copper particles convert in saltwater to cuperious sulfate ((04/08/24 CORRECTION: Actual chemistry in salt water is for the copper to first convert to cuprous oxide and then to cupric hydrochloride)) to retard marine growth. Periodic resanding for exposure is required even while it is in the water for the same reason over time.
These hard coatings don’t work in fresh water because ((typically)) lacks the salt required for the chemical reactions to occur that make the copper sulfate biocide.

Now if you do a lot of running about at high speed using your motor (like we are often doing as we use our Mac26X as a cruiser) then you might/will get fewer years from your ablative coating. Important trick is to be GENTLE when cleaning upon haul out.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Hey thanks for all that info and your time as well, one thing I was curious about you had commented about wet blasting at a boat yard. Can you wet blast instead of 80grit sanding for prep as per directions on the InterProtect® 2000E can? My boat has never had any paint on the bottom. Thanks
OverEasy
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Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Shane Anthony!

With the wet blasting setups at most boatyards the answer is yes. They have equipment with the capability to mix the appropriate amount of grit material into the water pressure stream. In the hands of an experienced and capable operator it does a more through and comprehensive job than most people are capable of doing hand sanding with a good orbital sander can ever do in a fraction of the time and effort. ….

I dunno about anybody else but having actually “been there & done that” for both the hand and boatyard approach it would be well worth considering the boatyard option. It’s generally better than and takes a whole lot less time/space/mess/effort than you might imagine.

It’s always about the trade offs between space/risk/hazard as well as those of time/money/quality for each person to decide for their particular needs and situations.

As each boatyard has their own operating procedures, if your really tight on budget and your diligent, fast working, situationally aware and have a week (meaning 5-to7 full working days without interruption by weather or family) you might consider asking the boat yard if you could roll-on your two coats of epoxy barrier paint and your two coats of ablative yourself in their yard while it is up on their stands.

That way you take advantage of their expertise (they’ve done it hundreds of time) and equipment to not only clean and prep your hull but also lift/place/support-&-stabilize/re-lift and then place your boat either back on your trailer or into the water.

Given that if done properly and with the right materials a barrier paint job could last for decades only needing occasional localized touch ups to maintain it osmotic protection of your hull. That leaves you with only having to contend with the periodic (depending upon YOUR usage and water conditions) fresh water wash 🧽 and sponging and the limited raising of the boat up off its bunks to pressure wash and reapply the ablative bottom paint. The later isn’t anywhere near as hard/difficult as what is required to prep a baseline hull for the epoxy barrier paintings.

Unless you just are in love with working on stuff (I can be guilty of that 🙄) and not being out enjoying using your boat I’d suggest the boatyard route if you can do that within your budgets.
There seldom is just one appropriate right answers. It helps to be pragmatically honest with yourself about capabilities and the time it takes to do things in the real world. Find the ones that work for you and your family.

Your boat - Your rules

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Shane anthony
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:44 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: 98375

Re: Blocking my 26M up for first coat of bottom paint

Post by Shane anthony »

OverEasy wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:56 pm Hi Shane Anthony!

With the wet blasting setups at most boatyards the answer is yes. They have equipment with the capability to mix the appropriate amount of grit material into the water pressure stream. In the hands of an experienced and capable operator it does a more through and comprehensive job than most people are capable of doing hand sanding with a good orbital sander can ever do in a fraction of the time and effort. ….

I dunno about anybody else but having actually “been there & done that” for both the hand and boatyard approach it would be well worth considering the boatyard option. It’s generally better than and takes a whole lot less time/space/mess/effort than you might imagine.

It’s always about the trade offs between space/risk/hazard as well as those of time/money/quality for each person to decide for their particular needs and situations.

As each boatyard has their own operating procedures, if your really tight on budget and your diligent, fast working, situationally aware and have a week (meaning 5-to7 full working days without interruption by weather or family) you might consider asking the boat yard if you could roll-on your two coats of epoxy barrier paint and your two coats of ablative yourself in their yard while it is up on their stands.

That way you take advantage of their expertise (they’ve done it hundreds of time) and equipment to not only clean and prep your hull but also lift/place/support-&-stabilize/re-lift and then place your boat either back on your trailer or into the water.

Given that if done properly and with the right materials a barrier paint job could last for decades only needing occasional localized touch ups to maintain it osmotic protection of your hull. That leaves you with only having to contend with the periodic (depending upon YOUR usage and water conditions) fresh water wash 🧽 and sponging and the limited raising of the boat up off its bunks to pressure wash and reapply the ablative bottom paint. The later isn’t anywhere near as hard/difficult as what is required to prep a baseline hull for the epoxy barrier paintings.

Unless you just are in love with working on stuff (I can be guilty of that 🙄) and not being out enjoying using your boat I’d suggest the boatyard route if you can do that within your budgets.
There seldom is just one appropriate right answers. It helps to be pragmatically honest with yourself about capabilities and the time it takes to do things in the real world. Find the ones that work for you and your family.

Your boat - Your rules

Best Regards,
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
Hi Over Easy!✋🏻

Wow! Thanks for all your thoughts on this, I always try to do every project no matter what. It’s not gonna be easy (but I’ll get over it pretty fast on this one) I’m going to call around and see if I can find a boat yard to wet blast it, but I’m thinking of doing the painting myself at least. Thanks again for the great advice and see you around sir.
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