Aluminium trailer hitch height?

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kadet
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Aluminium trailer hitch height?

Post by kadet » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:57 am

Well I have finally taken the plunge and put a deposited on a new 2008 26M. Hope that ship sails fast from California :) and is not a slow boat via China. Mid March is ETA . :(

I have to upgrade my 4WD’s trailer hitch receiver as the current one is a light duty one for a box trailer rated for only 1400kg (3000 pounds) ball weight 75kg

I am getting a heavier duty one that is rated for 2000kg (4400pounds) ball weight 180kg (400pound). My question is, what is the height of the ball receiver on the new aluminium trailer hitch (when level) so I can get a neck with the right step height. I would wait to measure my own boat but as the first time I will see it is when I pick it up some 120km away I did not want to have to do two round trips if I have the wrong size step on the hitch and ball. Also this is a non-factory tow bar and hitch receiver so they need some leed time to get one in.

Also I have assumed that the safest tow angle on the trailer is level is this correct or should there be a slight down angle?

Also for those that are interested from my previous post I dropped the idea of the ETEC 90 and have gone with a 60. With the way fuel costs are going hopefully I will only use it to get in and out of the channel and up to the ramp and the odd tow of the kids on toys.

Thanks for all the good tips on this sight, think I have killed a couple of tress printing all the mod stuff I am thinking of doing. I know the wife now calls boat a four letter word around here.

Regards

Kadet

jeffz
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Post by jeffz » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:01 pm

Welcome to the mac world. We have a 2008 and have had fun since August.

My hitch is 21" to center and I use a 4" drop. This is one of the ones I had with a 2" ball and seems to work good. 2" either way would probably not make much difference.

Good Luck! This is our first boat and we are having a fun time learning to sail.


jeffz

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Night Sailor
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Post by Night Sailor » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:58 pm

All trailers, especially dual or triple axle shoudl be towed as near level as possible for the best handling, tire wear, tracking, braking, and traction.

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davidbagnall
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Post by davidbagnall » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:01 pm

Mate Congrats and welcome to the club...

It's good to see another Mac in Brissy.

I just had my mac up at late coothrabra which is 190km trip and she towed like a dream (even in the wind and rain) so your 120km trip home should be fine....

Hope to see you on the water real soon 8)

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kadet
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Post by kadet » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:11 am

Current step is 46cm above ground near enough to 21" so should be good.

Thanks for the replies.

David Boreen Point has some nice restaurants from memory so I hope to go sailing up there when I get used to the Mac. Coothraba is only a short run up the Bruce Highway for me as I am way north on the northside of town and only about 1K from the on ramp :)

Thanks again

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davidbagnall
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Post by davidbagnall » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:51 pm

Hi Kadet

The pub on Sundays has its famous roast which I guess being so close you must have also enjoyed.

We camp at Elanda every 4-6 weeks or so and are slowing becoming part of the furniture up there. I have been sailing and windsurfing there for most of my life and love it.

We were up there last week and launched from the ramp at Boreen Pt ramp with no problems. The Lake was pretty full when we launched and dropped a fair bit by Thursday when we retrieved it but the ramp was still fine. When the lake is at normal level it may be a bit tricky but I think it should be ok.

I have a 26X and set my centreboard ¾ down and had no problems hitting ground so it might be an idea to set yours part up as well. I also kept my depth sounder on so I knew what was under me. My boat got a nice “Coothraba Tea stain” so I have my work cut out for me this weekend cleaning my hull. Next time I go there I will give her a nice wax to reduce the staining.

When you get your boat I would be happy to help you if you wish. If not we should arrange a sailing weekend on the lake…….

Cheers
Dave

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kadet
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Post by kadet » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:14 pm

Sounds like a plan give me a few months to setup and practice. Should see if there is enough interst in Brisbane to setup a MAC sailing club or social group for meets.

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Bransher
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Post by Bransher » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 am

Some previous discussion on adjustable height trailer hitches can be found here.

I don't know if they are available in Australia.

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ChrisP and Pam
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Post by ChrisP and Pam » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:23 pm

Kadet,
Congratulations on your new boat! We love the sailing and just being on the water for a few days at a time.
IMHO, for the motor, I believe that the 50hp recommendation from Roger is unbelievably undersized. I have a 60 and the same goes for that. You'll have to reinforce the transom to be on the safe side but if you can go with the 90 and keep the hull warranty, you won't regret the power. And even if you couldn't keep the warranty, the 90 would be worth it. They're using 90's (and more) on these Macs with no hull trouble. And the motor lasts a lot longer than the warranty.
And what's more, a 90hp motor, operating in midrange rpms is likely as good on fuel (maybe better) than a 60 at WOT. At least the fuel cost difference is minimal or non-existent assuming you operate as you say.
I think the reason for the low hp recommendation is because they can get away with it. What lawyer is going to invite higher numbers which mathematically bring higher risk. Roger can't make these things fast enough now. So the market isn't in play here. They leave the status-quo 50hp recommendation and don't invite any problems. But bigger is better (within reason) and 90hp could easily be the right motor for this boat.
Chris

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kadet
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Post by kadet » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:36 am

Thanks for the comments Cris. I sort of agree with your logic but,

Hull warranty is a non issue because as soon as the boat leaves the US there is no warranty for me :wink: . Bloody long why to send it back to California for repairs. If I buy from the warranted Aussie dealer it costs $14000 more. I can get a lot of hull repair done for 14K so I am assuming the risk myself acting as my own dealer.

Engine HP again is a non issue, as I don’t know how it can be enforced (sailing vessels are exempted here from the Australian Builders Plate legislation that controls recommended HP and weight limitations of boat builders) similar to a motor vehicle compliance plate.

"Why is the Australian Builders Plate (ABP) being introduced?
The ABP is a joint initiative of industry and government through the National Marine Safety Committee. A national standard was developed following an extensive consultation process which included workshops and meetings around Australia with the Australian Marine Industries Federation (AMIF), boating industry associations, boat builders, manufacturers and importers.

The National Marine Safety Committee put together a regulatory impact statement for recreational vessels which highlighted that the primary vessels involved in fatalities were dinghies (57 per cent), open motor boats and half cabins. Of these tragedies, 31 per cent of the vessels were overpowered, 24 per cent were overloaded and 12 per cent of those less than six metres had inadequate stability or buoyancy. At 36 per cent, capsize was the most common initial event in all fatal incidences. The regulatory impact statement estimated that fatal and serious injuries associated with recreational boating costs Australians about A$52 million each year. There are on average 80 deaths and nearly 1000 people admitted to hospital each year as a result of boating incidents in Australia"


A recommendation based on HP is bollocks as transom stress is a measure of force. I.E thrust + weight.

What does a 50hp rating on it’s own actually mean? Can I mount a 50HP diesel back there weighing 200KG (400+ pounds)

Hull limitations should be measured by speed (pounding) or weight (point at which transom will break).

HP is a measure of bugger all on it’s own.

Most boat manufactures, here in OZ anyway, now have to specify a maximum transom weight and power recommendation.

MacGregor says they limit it to 50hp because of weight (not stated) for sailing performance and it is the biggest motor that can be hand started. Again this is a non issue as modern motors (they have been preaching this line since 1995) are lighter and many 50s with electronics cannot be hand started anyway, carry a jump battery instead.

I have personally gone away from the 90 because I wanted to save the 40 odd KG off the back and from speaking to power boat friends where I intend to do most of my sailing they say they can rarely go WOT due to chop and most motor at about at 10-12 knots for comfort. I suspected I would not get the use out of the 90 and the extra boat$$ could be used elsewhere, nice GPS plotter maybe :!: . But I still have not put the cash on the table so it might end up a 90 especially if I cannot get a 60 in white :x .

My wife works for an insurance broker and there is no problem insuring a 26 foot “cabin cruiser” here with a 90hp motor. If I run over a skier or crash into another boat does it really matter if it was a 50 or a 90 pushing the boat? Once the insurance company accepts the contract that is that. Just don’t lie to them or they have an out.

Also if you "do up" your boat a fresh ABP can be issued by a "competent person" for any changes. I.E. an outboard mechanic in theroy could issue a fresh ABP for a bigger motor if the transom was reinforced to take it. Or a boat fitter could reduce the flotation capacity if a foam floatation seat was removed to make room for a bait tank.

Got to love law makers to make it as clear as mud. :)

Phillip
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Post by Phillip » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:42 pm

Be a little cautious of the Insurance Companies.
Club Marine are honest enough to come right out and state they will not cover a boat with a motor bigger than the Manufacturers recommendations.....that was my experience a yr or so back.

The others don't ask the question at all....so I asked one (in writting) "what if?" and the reply stated; in event of a claim the vessel would be inspected to verify is complied with the manufactures specifications.
No doubt they are all different, plus you have an advantage to info with your wife being in the business.
Cheers
Phillip

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Russ
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Post by Russ » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:24 pm

Phillip wrote:Be a little cautious of the Insurance Companies.
Club Marine are honest enough to come right out and state they will not cover a boat with a motor bigger than the Manufacturers recommendations.....that was my experience a yr or so back.

The others don't ask the question at all....so I asked one (in writting) "what if?" and the reply stated; in event of a claim the vessel would be inspected to verify is complied with the manufactures specifications.
No doubt they are all different, plus you have an advantage to info with your wife being in the business.
Cheers
Phillip
Interesting.

My experience with insurance companies is that they will find any excuse to not pay a claim.

Motor too large
Paint peeling, trailer rusted
Capt'n was wearing flip flops


Now I'm having a 70hp installed on my M. Is that considered outside of manufacturer's recommendation if it's done by authorized dealer?

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Terry
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Post by Terry » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:45 pm

RussMT wrote: My experience with insurance companies is that they will find any excuse to not pay a claim.
Capt'n was wearing flip flops
A very good reason, not excuse, to not pay a claim! :P
I have no tolerance for this kind of foot wear and will not allow it aboard my boat. Those things are an accident waiting and looking for a place to happen. I happened to be a few steps behind some gonzo teens (guys) two of which were sporting those goofy things at Friday harbour. It was quite a walk from the visitors' dock to the land and these two idiots were loosing their flops every couple of flips, they must have had to put their feet back in place every three steps. I could not believe any guy would tolerate such an anoyance. I realize women will never give them up but guys??? :o

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kadet
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Post by kadet » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:06 pm

Terry that' interesting as Club Marine was one of the firms quoting on my orginal configuration of an :macm: with a 90 E-TEC.

With an X you are not even required to have an ABP as it is a secondhand boat. Come to think of it the :macm: I looked at new only had capacity labels fitted no engine labels. So apart from the manual where is it specified that a Macgrgeor is limited to 50hp and seeing as dealers in the US offer 70HP (BWY for one) I think my lawyer would have a good argument that this is also a recommended size :P .

Seeing as the factory is now apparently offering the 2008 model with E-TEC 60s (source needed) it seems the 60 is a safe bet.

Insurance companies here at least are highly regulated and if you know someone in the industry it is not to difficult to call their bluffs. Remember a disputed claim will end up before a civil jury and what insurance company would want to take on a jury? They are liked less than banks :D

Bottom line read the policy to find what will render it void and give them an out.

As for flip flops (thongs here, for you toe not your butt) they are part of the national dress code. They are a highly versatile tool can be used as crab pot float, frizbee, they even qualify as part of your fire safty equipment to beat out fires. :wink: So don't rubbish the THONG

See 3w souvenirsaustralia com/webcontent26.htm

Could not post url replace spaces with dot (.) and 3w with you know what

Phillip
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Post by Phillip » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:54 pm

Kadet.
I am seeking a little advice.
When you register a boat here in Aussie, (Recreational Ship Registration Application)on the 2nd page of the form it asks for the APB (Australian Builders Plate), and if you don't have one......can you still register the boat.
Have you checked this out, because I understand from reading it, if the Vessel was built after the 28 Sep 2006 then you may not be able to register it.
This week there were changes in the Australian Govt Data Base, and the effect it has with MacGregors is that now all MacGregor VIN (trailer) numbers and HIN (boat) numbers are now entered, so they have a track of both the trailer and boat.....it is an international thing......tied in with a system called ISO.
I also understand, that MacGregor, as a manufacturer, and under the Free Trade Agreement, and because of their Manufacturing program, will be permited to export to Australia.

So my question is: seeing your getting a new M, what do you understand to be the rules pertaining to people like us bringing in Macs built after 28 Sep 2006.

I could just front-up to the Dept of Transport and ask, but before doing so, would like to know what path others are following.

Cheers
Phillip

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