EV-100 Auto Pilot Install

[RobertB]

Are you sure that's not magnetic vs. true configuration problem? The variance is about 13 degrees.

Yup, that was another off the recommendations. But separate from the track data issue.

[RobertB]

I plan to just connect the Ray Marine backbone right into the Garmin backbone so all the stuff can talk to each other.

Yeah good luck with that, that's what I did and the Raymarine Autopilot computer saw some of the Garmin output like wind speed and heading from memory but not the track data or waypoints. Hooked up the NMEA 0183 ports and viola everything worked. I know your 100 does not have NMEA 0183 hence the good luck

How did you hook up the NMEA0183? I know the Garmin has it but what exactly did you do on the RayMarine AP side?

[BOAT]

I plan to just connect the Ray Marine backbone right into the Garmin backbone so all the stuff can talk to each other.

Yeah good luck with that, that's what I did and the Raymarine Autopilot computer saw some of the Garmin output like wind speed and heading from memory but not the track data or waypoints. Hooked up the NMEA 0183 ports and viola everything worked. I know your 100 does not have NMEA 0183 hence the good luck

Did you actually extend one backbone to the other? Ray Marine said i can extend one backbone to the other. That means removing the end resistors from both backbones and connecting them to each other. Did you extend the backbones or did you just connect to a spur? If you extend the backbones you need to use a backbone cable. Otherwise to do a spur I guess a regular cable will do. This is very frustrating.

This stuff is all very confusing to me so sorry if I am not getting it.

[RobertB]

The Garmin SeaTalkNG adapter is a spur cable adapter. I believe I needed to extend the SEATalkNG to include two additional spurs and adapt each to Lowrance NMEA2000. Cheap way to do this is to cut the ends off a single SeaTalkNG cable and splice them onto the NMEA cables.

[BOAT]

The Garmin SeaTalkNG adapter is a spur cable adapter. I believe I needed to extend the SEATalkNG to include two additional spurs and adapt each to Lowrance NMEA2000. Cheap way to do this is to cut the ends off a single SeaTalkNG cable and splice them onto the NMEA cables.

Okay Robert, that's exactly what I thought and what I was planning to do until I got some info from Ray Marine last night:

They are telling me that I can actually EXTEND the Ray Marine backbone to INCLUDE the entire Garmin backbone (a full on EXTENSION, not a spur), by using a DeviceNet cable!

I know, I know what your thinking and I don't think I believe it yet either - I am still waiting for clarification from Ray Marine. One guy told me he has already done it - but I assume to do that you would need to use a backbone cable, not a spur. (This is a big deal because it allows me to add wireless pods and control EVERYTHING from iphones and ipads and dongles - and even get wind data from SEVERAL locations using wireless wind indicators)

I am going to call West Marine in San Diego today too because mastreb says they have a cable.

[Obelix]

Following this ongoing discussion makes me kind of sad.
Another company following the "we build our system, to hull with the existing standards" path.
Making customers jump through hoops if they want to use existing hardware, from other manufacturers, with the Raymarine stuff; just by introducing not a new protocol, but a new connector to sell overpriced cabling and accessories.
To me that sounds like a reason to stay away from Raymarine.

Obelix

[BOAT]

Following this ongoing discussion makes me kind of sad.
Another company following the "we build our system, to hull with the existing standards" path.
Making customers jump through hoops if they want to use existing hardware, from other manufacturers, with the Raymarine stuff; just by introducing not a new protocol, but a new connector to sell overpriced cabling and accessories.
To me that sounds like a reason to stay away from Raymarine.

Obelix

Hey O,

O always sort of imagined this avatar for you, but the stock M boat pic is just fine too. Anyways,



(Just a joke) I hear you - and really the fact that neither Ray Marine or Garmin even invented the protocals that they are using is sort of near to libel and legal copyright infringment in my book.

I found out that this entire n2000 thing is all a bunch of baloney. It's really a protocol that has been around forever call DeviceNet. DeviceNet is what Allen Bradly invented back in the 90's to connect their PLC devices with third party vendors of sensors and limit switches and so forth; it's stuff used in the factory automation industry. The factory automation industry invented this whole thing, not the aerospace industry.

Raytheon is just using the same stuff used on the factory floor to run robots and conveyor belts.

DiviceNet IS the 0183 thing and 2000 is apparently an updated version of that. The machines will all understand each other and the cable will all work apparently - it is, like you say, the CONNECTORS that have been changed to mess everyone up. By doing it this way Raytheon also avoids a lawsuit with Allen Bradley and other copyright holders of the DeviceNet patents. They indicate SeaTalk as a CABLE, NOT a PROTOCOL. Nice way to dodge the lawyers. Garmin is sort of doing it too, but not as blatantly as Raytheon.

They can't get away with this stuff in the factory automation industry because those folks are smarter than the boating and flying public and are not fooled. It's just a way to pinch dummies like me.

I guess it's working because i will be calling West marine for more cables.

[RobertB]

The Garmin SeaTalkNG adapter is a spur cable adapter. I believe I needed to extend the SEATalkNG to include two additional spurs and adapt each to Lowrance NMEA2000. Cheap way to do this is to cut the ends off a single SeaTalkNG cable and splice them onto the NMEA cables.

Okay Robert, that's exactly what I thought and what I was planning to do until I got some info from Ray Marine last night:

They are telling me that I can actually EXTEND the Ray Marine backbone to INCLUDE the entire Garmin backbone (a full on EXTENSION, not a spur), by using a DeviceNet cable!

I know, I know what your thinking and I don't think I believe it yet either - I am still waiting for clarification from Ray Marine. One guy told me he has already done it - but I assume to do that you would need to use a backbone cable, not a spur. (This is a big deal because it allows me to add wireless pods and control EVERYTHING from iphones and ipads and dongles - and even get wind data from SEVERAL locations using wireless wind indicators)

I am going to call West Marine in San Diego today too because mastreb says they have a cable.

Probably most of what has been said is right but I remember that the RayMarine adapter has a spur cable connector. The Lowrance/NMEA2000 wiring uses the same connector for both backbone and spur connections. The SeaTalkNG does not - it also is not purely a NMEA2000 setup, it is backwards compatible with earlier RayMarine protocols (the additional yellow wire if I remember).

[BOAT]

MAN, this is confusing.

[RobertB]

Oh yeah, now I remember. I asked RayMarine if I could just hook the NMEA2000 backbone to the SeaTalkNG spur adapter and they said I needed to hook only one device per spur connector. I think they just wanted to sell more adapters. That is when I made my own.

[BOAT]

Oh yeah, now I remember. I asked RayMarine if I could just hook the NMEA2000 backbone to the SeaTalkNG spur adapter and they said I needed to hook only one device per spur connector. I think they just wanted to sell more adapters. That is when I made my own.

YES! That is what I'm talking about! They don't tell the whole truth! It makes me mad cuz if it is possible to extend the backbone from one to the other it eliminates the need to have all those spurs.

I purposely put my Ray Marine backbone about 2 feet from my Garmin backbone for that very reason that my hope was that the two could just be connected together and share ALL the devices that are already connected on BOTH networks without adding all that other gobbledygook they keep trying to sell me.

But I don't think the backbone cables and the spur cables are the same - it's not just the connectors that are different - the backbone can carry current from one device to the other too along with communications and I assume there must be some sort of shielding in the backbone cables to do that. (???)

That would also explain why some communications might not work using only a spur - not sure on that one. (GEEZ this is a pain).

[RobertB]

Yeah, it is a pain. Imagine what determining all the cables needed for an air traffic control system was Difference, the ATC is fully functional.

[BOAT]

What really burns me up is that my company has been an Allen Bradley distributor for like 50 years and if I would have known this whole thing was just DeviceNet I could have built the whole thing with ONE backbone for like TEWNTY BUCKS!! Fanuc, and Allen Bradley and Siemens and all the major automation guys have the cable wholesale cheap and you can even go online and get the same stuff from Red Hat and other automation third party sites for like a BUCK A CABLE!!! This could have been a ten dollar installation.

MAN, what a rip off!

[kadet]

How did you hook up the NMEA0183? I know the Garmin has it but what exactly did you do on the RayMarine AP side?

SPX-5 course computer has ports for NMEA 0183 SeaTalk and SeaTalkNG my Garmin has NMEA 2000 and 2 x NMEA 0183.

I was lucky I suppose that I installed during the change over period so if something did not work the other did

[kadet]

I plan to just connect the Ray Marine backbone right into the Garmin backbone so all the stuff can talk to each other.

Yeah good luck with that, that's what I did and the Raymarine Autopilot computer saw some of the Garmin output like wind speed and heading from memory but not the track data or waypoints. Hooked up the NMEA 0183 ports and viola everything worked. I know your 100 does not have NMEA 0183 hence the good luck

Did you actually extend one backbone to the other? Ray Marine said i can extend one backbone to the other. That means removing the end resistors from both backbones and connecting them to each other. Did you extend the backbones or did you just connect to a spur? If you extend the backbones you need to use a backbone cable. Otherwise to do a spur I guess a regular cable will do. This is very frustrating.

This stuff is all very confusing to me so sorry if I am not getting it.

The only SeaTalkNG thing in my system is the Raymarine so I used spur cables with NG on one end and NMEA 2000 on the other and just hooked it straight into the 2000 backbone. I just bought a 2000 plug and modified the NG cables.