gas tanks

[Andy26M]

Tom Spohn -

Please share anything they say about your tanks when you get your inspection.

Imho, the article you linked from WA State is missing a paragraph - they cover "portable tanks 7 gallons and under" and "permanent tanks over 7 gallons", but they do not address "portable tanks over 7 gallons", which is clearly what we have...

- Andy

[Frank C]

. . . The tempo tanks are a quarter of the price of the duratanks and the fill and takeoffs are more convienent as you can see in the pictures back on page 1.

Duane,
Perhaps a slight exaggeration ... as you've written on several other occasions, you are not foolish enough to pay retail prices when it's avoidable?

I phoned OMC dealers to ask "availability and pricing." If they don't have them in stock, phone somebody else. Retail was $49 each, but I was able to purchase two Duratanks with fittings for $72 plus tax. That should be about double the price of the Tempo with fittings (hardly quadruple, eh?)

[Frank C]

. . . I think the problem area might be the grounding, not the venting or the size of the tanks. But, I am no expert. Regarding MacGregor's responsibility .... unless it is an outboard. OOOPS!

Tom's exactly right, grounding is the really significant difference (re Macs) between portable and permanent tankage (I wrote of mounting and venting). What is inferred by the CG regs is that a "portable" tank will be removed from the vessel for refueling. That's clearly a possibility ... but just as clearly, it's pretty unlikely. In fact, one disadvantage of the Tempo filler caps might be they're too easy to refill, on board!

However, the exposed filler caps of the new Tempo makes "permanent mounting and grounding" potentially realistic. In fact, one could completely disregard differences in cost, durability, or cockpit intrusion. IMO, filler access, combined w/ adequate grounding, is the single most important reason to consider the newly designed Tempo tanks. Duane's mounting strap looks great for the 26X. If there's a method to reliably ground them into a 26X, these Tempo tanks would represent one of the best mods I've seen for the Mac, bar none.

From what I've read, static potential builds on a plastic tank's interior surface and across the liquid fuel surface, due to the physical flow-speed of the fuel molecules. I've mused about grounding my Duratanks with a braided fuel line jacket from the external fuel fitting down to the interior fuel pickup. That cannot work on the Tempo since the fuel-feed is molded into the plastic.

It seems to me that an internal grounding strap might be required to shunt static potential through a small cable to a waterline grounding plate, or perhaps just to the outboard. Alternatively, since modern fuel nozzles are grounded anyway, perhaps just an interior strap would suffice. For those who are fuel systems or electrical engineering experts, what metal grounding strap (from filler neck to tank bottom) would survive within the plastic tank, without contaminating the fuel? Maybe one should just drape a ground strap from the filler neck into the tank during refueling? Other ideas?

If it's feasible, it would surely ease my mind about refueling the Mac, even if it missed some aspect of the official CG regs. Further, along with a secure mounting, a deck-fill and a similar grounding strap would eliminate the most critical aspect of using the 12-gallon tanks, too.

[Tom Spohn]

Frank C., you are correct about the source of static in plastic tanks. When I took the ABC course offered by the USPS the instructor told us not to slide plastic tanks to avoid static. Especially bad is to slide them across the carpet in your SUV and then fill them while they are in the trunk. Many times when I struggled with the 9gas tanks in my X, which I always filled on the dock, I found at least some small amount of sliding unavoidable. I wondered if it would be safer to slide the tanks out, then slide them over the gunwale and onto the dock and then slide them back in again, or to just trust the anti-static capabilities of the pump and fill them in the boat. In my M with the 12 gal. tanks I have been filling them in the boat even though I have a hunch this is contrary to USPS recommendations.

[Thilliard]

I want to second the "attaboys" for Duane's tank installation. I'm going to think about that as well.

I have one little question. Where did you get that strap hardware?

Duane will tell us where he got his but I have seen a similar strap sold to hold suitcases closed. That might be one source if not necesarily the easiest.

[Tom Spohn]

Well, we had our Vessel Inspection today and passed with a perfect score. It should be noted that fuel tanks are not on the check list!!! The list was mostly safety items like PFD's, fire extinguisher, horn, etc. etc. After we got our sticker I asked the examiner about the fuel tanks. She was not sure if they could be filled on the boat or not and agreed to ask the instructor of the ABC course where I originally heard to fuel them on the deck. I will report back what I learn.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

An note on capacity of the new 4 tank Tempo Value 6 installation I have which there are pictures of back in page 1 of this thread.

I was at a regular gas station today getting gas for this weekend and I paid more attention to the numbers on the pump than I had previously at the fuel dock.

I was actually suprised to see when I pulled the tanks from the boat (Up til now I had only filled them on board), that the tanks were nearly sucked dry by the motor. There was very little left in the tanks I pulled out. The very low end location of the pickup combined with the slight slant of the lockers to the center of the cockpit lets almost all the gas be used.

On filling the tanks, when filled to the fill line it took 5.9+ gallons so running the tanks dry leaves less than .1th of a gallon. They don't have the reserve area built in like the Tempo Utra 6 tanks. When over filled to the base of the fill neck I was able to put 6.55 gallons into the tank from the pump. Even filled this full there is still a lot of air space in the top due to the handle on top design. I filled two tanks and finished with 13.2 gallons dispensed.

So the 4 tanks I have on board filled as full as possible gives me 26.4 completely useable gallons without resorting to tipping the tanks to get the last bit as I had to in my old Ultra tanks.

[Frank C]

.... They don't have the reserve area built in like the Tempo Utra 6 tanks.

FWIW, I try to monitor each tank as it is used, and switch to the next one while there's a gallon or so left. I like the idea of having a small amount left in reserve.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I used to like the idea of having a small amount in reserve too, but I've changed my opinion as it ends up being a pita to always have to tilt the tanks to get the last half gallon or so out.

Lets face it, the idea of multiple tanks is a reserve in itself, so having 4 reserve tanks is kind of a waste of time IMO. I currently have 2X6.5 Tempo Ultra and 2X3.5 Tempo Ultra. When I put in a couple more 6 gallon tanks, I'll still have the two 3.5 gallon tanks left and the small ones are a good size for a reserve tank on a Mac. Figure 10-20 miles depending on how slow you go, etc.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I like being able to run them basically dry. The only time I pay attention to the level is if I am approaching a time where I don't want to go dry such as a current pass, the locks, docking. Otherwise I just go until the motor RPM's tell me it's time to switch. With 4 tanks available I don't see a reason to leave some in each tank. I found the reserve area of the ulta tanks anoying. It makes sense in a single tank senario, but not in a multiple tank one.

For me, my utlimate reserve tank is the 3 gallon Utlra we have on board for the dinghy. It is pre-mixed with oil, but can be used with the Tohatsu 50 if necessary. With that and the 26 gallons in the 4 other main tanks I end up with 29 gallons available.

Besides, it is a sailboat. Everyone should practice sailing up to a dock more often.

[Frank C]

.... The only time I pay attention to the level is if I am approaching a time where I don't want to go dry such as a current pass, the locks, docking.
.... Besides, it is a sailboat. Everyone should practice sailing up to a dock more often.

RE first point, Yeah, true enough. I was thinking of days when I go out with just two tanks full, I like to leave a reserve as the first tank goes low.

RE second point, Yeah, right after I stock-up my earthquake preparedness kit! I have no doubt about my ability to get home under sail, but docking under sail will be OJT That's on job training!

No offense, but when I manage time to get the boat under sail, it's across the open water, not sailing up to a dock.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Time to resurrect an old thread. I was at West Marine the other day and bought a couple of the tempo value 6 tanks to see how they fit.

If you already have some 6.5 gallon tanks be informed each X locker can hold one 6.5 tank AND one 6.0 gallon OMC Duratank.

I've found that the tempo value 6 tanks don't fit at all with the stock fuel lockers on my 2000 X. If the duratanks fit in there without modification, then they would be worth more money than the tempo tanks. Did you have to modify your lockers to fit the duratanks?

The tanks that I kept coming back to were the Tempo Value 6. These sell for $14.95 at Boaters World.

Wow, I guess I got ripped off then..at WM, they were $29.99 each...although I had a 10% off coupon, but thats still over $26 each. Guess I'll be returning them one way or another

I've heard people say that they can fit a duratank 6 in the (unmodified) locker along with a 6.5 ultra. Does anyone have a picture of this setup that they could either post or email to me?

Just for the record, I did have to slightly modify the lockers in order to fit the Duratanks... I had to cut a rounded notch in the upper portion of the face in order for the tanks' caps and outlet ports to fit through.

I see that Mike says he did indeed have to make some small modifications to the lockers. Perhaps not as big a modification as Duane's though. Duane, did you have to cut all four sides of the opening?

So, I take it that if I want 4-6 gallon tanks in my fuel lockers, I'm gonna have to do some cutting? I'm trying to decide if its just not a better idea to stay with my current situation (2X6.5 and 2X3.5) which fit in the unmodified locker and then buy a couple 5 gallon jerry cans that I can use to refill the main tanks. That would give me almost 30 gals capacity. Certainly would be cheaper but I guess it could be a pita to try to refill tanks when out at sea with anything but calm conditions. Any comments?

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Are you sure you got the value 6 and not the Ultra 6? In my west catalog the value 6's are $21.99 while the Utra 6.5's are $26.99.

Here is the current value 6 price at Boaters World, It's $17.99. I bought mine on a sale.

Fitting the two value 6 tanks in required cutting on 2 sides of the openings. The lower lip needed to be lowered to nearly flush with the locker floor, and the aft side needed about 3/4" removed. These were easy to do with a spiral saw in my dremel. You could probably do it with a jig saw as well. Get extra bits or blades as the thick glass dulls them quickly. I went through 4 spiral blades to make the cuts on both sides. I then sanded with a belt sander to get it all straight and the touched it up with a dremel sanding drum. I also lowered the drain hole so it is really flush and no water will stand in the compartment.

You can see these cuts in the picture below without the tanks installed.



I don't think making these two cuts and adding the straps was any more work than cutting two deck plates in the seats would have been for a 12 gallon install. Now I have 24 gallons, (27 actually if you top the tanks up all the way) yet they are still hand removable and can be carried to get fuel in the car or the dinghy. Plus the fittings are in the perfect place for easy fuel hose changes and the fillers can be used without moving the tanks at all. At a fuel dock you can just fill the tanks in place.

This is the lowest cost alternative I've seen and they have great functionality in our lockers. There's even still room for 3 qts of stuff (stove fuel, Oil) on each side and I didn't even have to move my cockpit speakers.

[richandlori]

Does anyone with an have the Tempo 6 Gal gas tank? I would like to get 4 of them, but I not sure of their measurements and if they will fit in the fuel lockers of the M. Would someone with the 6 Gal Tempo tanks take the trouble of taking and posting their measurements?

Thanks

Rich

[TampaMac]

I think the best solution would be to have 48 one-quart bottles in each compartment. They would be really easy to move. Each bottle only weighs maybe 2 lbs. so the Coast Guard would definitely consider them portable.

You merely route each of the 48 lines from each side into a sump tanks that feeds the engine. Actually come to think of it maybe using 96 one-pint containers would be even better.......

Pole-vaulting over mouse poop comes to mind when worrying about some gray-area interpretation of what a permanent vs. portable tank is. Also I think that moving around tanks of fuel is more dangerous than leaving a 12 gallon tank onboard and filling it.

I put two twelve-gallon tanks in. I had the local marina install screw on access ports about 6 inches across above each of the tank's caps.

You unscrew the access ports and use a gas pump to fill the tanks.

Most of you all trailer your boats. Would it not be easier and safer to stop by the station and fill them up without moving them? That seems much safer than removing a bunch of small 3.5/6/6.5/7 gal tanks.

The two 12-gallon tanks are removable, not strapped down, but stay put completely.

As far as I'm concerned the tanks are vented by the huge holes that allow you to place them in the compartment.

If you are trying to save money when on a long trip by removing the tanks and walking to a gas station.... well how much money are you really saving vs. the time and trouble involved??