Honda BF50 Low idle and carburation problem

[atzserv]

Squidman,

It sounds like you opened the screw that drains the carb bowl for winterizing. I will take a pic the next time I am at the boat. The carbs are linked together so try using the shifter to see which set of screws you should be working with. Might help you get to the idle screw. Once you see them working together it will be the bottom carb screw that you can adjust.

The surging you are experiencing while motoring is something I haven't experienced yet so I don't know what to tell you for that.

Gary

[SquidMan]

I have had the same problem,and it's really annoying.
I use fuel stabilizer,and fresh fuel,and I have a water seperator,and the regular fuel filter in the line,and still I get the idle problem when it's warmed up. Runs fine until it's warmed up,then the low idle starts.

I ran the motor at nearly 4500rpm fpr about 8 miles on Champlain,and it idled great after that-for about 2 days,then back to the idle problem.

I,m starting to think it may be an ethanol fuel situation,or a richness adjustment.

I'm starting to believe that the problem is ethanol related. Check out the post by James V titeld "Is my motor drunk? (ethanol fuels) " in this forum and go to the link on ethanol fuels there.

[James V]

Do you put in injector cleaner every oil change?

It really does help and is recommended by Mercury and is something I do almost every time.

[KayakDan]

Do you put in injector cleaner every oil change?

It really does help and is recommended by Mercury and is something I do almost every time.

I haven't used any additives besides stabilizer,but I do have a fuel system cleaner that I am goingto try next tankful.
Motor runs great at speed,it's just the idle at issue.

Suidman,I think your trying to adjust the wrong screw. Sounds like the float drain screw. Look at the linkage going carb to carb . Each carb is atached by a bell crank that swivels. The bottom one has a phillips head screw that faces to the stern at about a 45o angle. That's your adjusting screw. Half a turn will be a big difference.
If you cant figure out the correct one,run the motor with the cover off and boost the idle with the lever,and you will see the linkage moving.

[SquidMan]

Problem Solved -

Removed the E10 gas,...flushed the engine with MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) real gas added with Sea Foam. Install a 10 micron water separator including an inline fuel filter. Replaced the BF50 fuel filter, and it nows runs like a charm

The Dangers of running your outboard with E10 is unbelievable. Please read the following very carefully, and research the following links before you do serious damage to your outboard (new or older).

http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/artic ... rt-ethanol
http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_etha ... ution.html

Future Problems from Ethanol?

A previous posting (above first link) noted that ethanol has caused shocking, costly damage to boat motors. The ethanol blend common throughout the country can leach the resin out of the fiberglass gas tanks of as many as 15,000 boats. This results in a black goo that coats the engine's innards and hardens as the motor cools.

Remember MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether)? This was one of the two oxygenates that EPA required to be added to gasoline, allegedly to make it cleaner burning in order to comply with the Clean Air Act. In practice, it was the only choice for much of the country outside the Midwest, the major corn-producing region, because the other approved oxygenate, ethanol, cannot be transported by pipeline to other sections of the country. Ethanol attracts water, and small amounts of water vapor, which are always present in the pipelines, alter the fuel blend as the ethanol breaks down.

But MTBE was found to pollute groundwater, resulting from leaky gas tanks at filling stations. They had always leaked a certain amount of gasoline, but this had not been a significant problem. Ethanol, however, was found to penetrate much further and faster in the ground than regular gasoline, and it did not break down as regular gasoline does. By 2001, MTBE was found to have polluted the groundwater in 49 states. California alone had identified 10,000 sites of polluted groundwater, with some sites having 1,000 times the EPA limit for this chemical. New York identified 1,500 polluted sites, and 3 million people were exposed on Long Island alone, which was found to have 100 polluted municipal wells; and those people had no alternative source of water. And people even in Alaska were found to have MTBE in their blood. (See our blog of March 13, 2006)

Most shocking is that EPA knew about the problem ten years before passage of the 1990 Clean Air Act--which it favored--and made no attempt to warn Congress or the public. EPA quietly let the legislation pass—and then for 15 years did nothing to eliminate MTBE. Instead, it started requiring gas stations to replace their underground steel gas tanks with fiberglass ones.

Dr. Arthur Robinson is a former professor of chemistry at the University of California at San Diego and former president and research director of the Linus Pauling Institute. He is currently head of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine and has written recently in his newsletter Access to Energy: “Presumably automobile owners have not yet noticed the epoxy resins in their engines, since the surface to volume ratio of service station tanks is much smaller, leading to a lower concentration of ethanol-dissolved epoxy resin in the fuel. What, however, will be the long-term consequences of gradually dissolving these government-mandated service station tanks?”

So far, so bad. The stage is set for the problem to get worse. Ethanol production is rapidly expanding far beyond any economic demand, due to incessant promotional propaganda and a plethora of taxpayer subsidies; and politicians are ever alert to buying more votes from corn growers and industry—which is also a heavy financial contributor to both major political parties. Now politicians have a new tactic for expanding ethanol production: legislating higher ethanol content in gasoline. Minnesota, I believe, is the first state to so, requiring a doubling of the ethanol content of gasoline by August 30, 2013. No doubt other states will follow, likely with earlier deadlines for compliance, as every state wants to be first in line for the next ethanol plant. It will be interesting to see if the dissolved epoxy resins become a problem in automobile engines when the ethanol content is increased, if not before.

[igooba]

I have a 2005 with the same experience, the motor cuts out at idle. It was only recently serviced and new fuel with stabil added that was 98 non ethanol. The Mechanic who serviced the motor through it might just need the idle screw adjustment due to the difference in setting the screw with ears rather than in the water.

Can anyone help with a picture where I can find the idle screw? I will need to adjust it on the water as I am on a mooring. Thanks for your help

[fdeoreo]

I have a 2005 with the same experience, the motor cuts out at idle. It was only recently serviced and new fuel with stabil added that was 98 non ethanol. The Mechanic who serviced the motor through it might just need the idle screw adjustment due to the difference in setting the screw with ears rather than in the water.

Can anyone help with a picture where I can find the idle screw? I will need to adjust it on the water as I am on a mooring. Thanks for your help

Igooba,

here you go, from a 1998 motor, a couple pics with overall view and closeup, screwdriver is on idle screw:



francis joshua

[igooba]

Awsome, Thanks Francis!
I will give it a go on the weekend. Do you know if Honda changed the layout of the engine much from 1998 to 2005?
It gives me a good idea of what to look for though.

Have to say it gets your heart going when trying to pickup a mooring single handed in stong wind with boats close by and it cuts out on you, then doesn't start for a couple of tries as you drift at pace towards an expensive cruiser! Ahh the serenity! thanks again

[fdeoreo]

Igooba,

looking at a parts schematic online the carb setup looks the same, should be no problem. ah, yes, almost running into things, whether solo or with someone aboard I always keep my boat hook handy to fend off those annoying expensive boats drawing mine towards them, ha, ha!!
good luck adjusting,
francis joshua

[DaveB]

If engine was sitting for a year even if previous owner installed a fuel stable , ya probable got little chunks of varnish blocking your fuel filter.
You need to drain fuel tank and was out 2 times with fresh gas. Replace fuel filter and you should be ready to go.
Add Seafoam to gas tank before draining 2 days before, watch all those black dots run in your fuel and cloug your fuel filter.
Dave

I've checked some of the forums here regarding the BF50 but nothing on what I'm looking for so if someone could help,..it would be greatly appreciated.
I've taken our recently purchased 2001 for 3 trips on our Lake here, and keep getting problems with low idle (around 200 t0 300) and the engine stalls out when it is cold but appears ok or seems that way when warmer but will stall if I shift from forward into neutral to go to reverse which can be somewhat scary when attempting to dock.
Is there some way I can raise the idle speed on the BF50? I've also checked the gas which is new gas and clean but also added the recommended Sea Foam for added protection, and still same problem. I was told that I may have carburetor problems.
Is there a recommended solvent that will clean carburators when added to the tank or is Sea Foam additive sufficient for this?
The engine was sitting for over a year but I don't believe that this is the problem. I have no inline filter, and thinking of getting a water separator if that might help? Thanks in advance for your help, and advise on this

[Tony E]

I had the exact same thing happen to me (and my 1998 BF50) when i took my 26X out this year. It would run okay at a certain idle but then too low and then stall sometimes. I bet you I had the cover off adjusting the idle screw on this one week trip at least 30 times. It would run better for a while and then the same thing. For an easy fix I changed the 3 spark plugs and put new ones in. The next time on the lake and ever since the motor runs perfect. Now I have a low idle and I don't have to worry about stalling when coning into dock or to the trailer and I don't have to keep it idling a bit faster in fear of it stalling. Put a set of new spark plugs in and make sure they are gaped right and then throw some carb cleaner in your gas tank. Should do the trick.

[Tomfoolery]

Put a set of new spark plugs in and make sure they are gaped right and then throw some carb cleaner in your gas tank. Should do the trick.

My local Honda OB supplier was adamant about NOT using Denso plugs. He attributed all sorts of odd behavior to them. He told me to use NGK DR7EA only. I have no way of verifying that info, though, so treat it as you would treat most other internet 'wisdom'.

[Three Gypsies]

Isnt 200-300 rpm way too low an idle for that motor (check your idle speed specs in manual)...if that too low obvioulsy it is going to stall out when you shift into gear...

Idle speed wont suddenly change - my guess is some gunk has worked its way into your carb and is causing the low idle.

My BF50 idles about 900 to 1000 rpm . I think you are trying to idle her way to low.

[yukonbob]

And people even in Alaska were found to have MTBE in their blood. (See our blog of March 13, 2006)

This is to help stop their blood from freezing

The ethanol in regular gas these days is also the same reason I run premium in all my gas burning vehicles. Less maintenance and prolonged engine life especially in 2 strokes.

[Three Gypsies]

Problem Solved -

Removed the E10 gas,...flushed the engine with MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) real gas added with Sea Foam. Install a 10 micron water separator including an inline fuel filter. Replaced the BF50 fuel filter, and it nows runs like a charm

The Dangers of running your outboard with E10 is unbelievable. Please read the following very carefully, and research the following links before you do serious damage to your outboard (new or older).

http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/artic ... rt-ethanol
http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_etha ... ution.html

Future Problems from Ethanol?

A previous posting (above first link) noted that ethanol has caused shocking, costly damage to boat motors. The ethanol blend common throughout the country can leach the resin out of the fiberglass gas tanks of as many as 15,000 boats. This results in a black goo that coats the engine's innards and hardens as the motor cools.

Remember MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether)? This was one of the two oxygenates that EPA required to be added to gasoline, allegedly to make it cleaner burning in order to comply with the Clean Air Act. In practice, it was the only choice for much of the country outside the Midwest, the major corn-producing region, because the other approved oxygenate, ethanol, cannot be transported by pipeline to other sections of the country. Ethanol attracts water, and small amounts of water vapor, which are always present in the pipelines, alter the fuel blend as the ethanol breaks down.

But MTBE was found to pollute groundwater, resulting from leaky gas tanks at filling stations. They had always leaked a certain amount of gasoline, but this had not been a significant problem. Ethanol, however, was found to penetrate much further and faster in the ground than regular gasoline, and it did not break down as regular gasoline does. By 2001, MTBE was found to have polluted the groundwater in 49 states. California alone had identified 10,000 sites of polluted groundwater, with some sites having 1,000 times the EPA limit for this chemical. New York identified 1,500 polluted sites, and 3 million people were exposed on Long Island alone, which was found to have 100 polluted municipal wells; and those people had no alternative source of water. And people even in Alaska were found to have MTBE in their blood. (See our blog of March 13, 2006)

Most shocking is that EPA knew about the problem ten years before passage of the 1990 Clean Air Act--which it favored--and made no attempt to warn Congress or the public. EPA quietly let the legislation pass—and then for 15 years did nothing to eliminate MTBE. Instead, it started requiring gas stations to replace their underground steel gas tanks with fiberglass ones.

Dr. Arthur Robinson is a former professor of chemistry at the University of California at San Diego and former president and research director of the Linus Pauling Institute. He is currently head of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine and has written recently in his newsletter Access to Energy: “Presumably automobile owners have not yet noticed the epoxy resins in their engines, since the surface to volume ratio of service station tanks is much smaller, leading to a lower concentration of ethanol-dissolved epoxy resin in the fuel. What, however, will be the long-term consequences of gradually dissolving these government-mandated service station tanks?”

So far, so bad. The stage is set for the problem to get worse. Ethanol production is rapidly expanding far beyond any economic demand, due to incessant promotional propaganda and a plethora of taxpayer subsidies; and politicians are ever alert to buying more votes from corn growers and industry—which is also a heavy financial contributor to both major political parties. Now politicians have a new tactic for expanding ethanol production: legislating higher ethanol content in gasoline. Minnesota, I believe, is the first state to so, requiring a doubling of the ethanol content of gasoline by August 30, 2013. No doubt other states will follow, likely with earlier deadlines for compliance, as every state wants to be first in line for the next ethanol plant. It will be interesting to see if the dissolved epoxy resins become a problem in automobile engines when the ethanol content is increased, if not before.

I have ran Ethanol gas in every marine engine I have ever owned . From my 4 cylinder Volvo , to my 50hp
2 stroke Mercury , to my V8 mercruiser in my Bayliner . I have discovered that my Honda BF50 actually runs better on it . During our time on the coast we were forced to run marine gas ,but occasionally I would get some street gas , our motor would idle better and run smoother . A few marinas are actually selling Ethanol gas alongside their marine gas . On a previous cruise , I had to clean my plugs , at the same time I got back home and was running ethanol again . I later checked the plugs I had to clean and they looked perfect , after running ethanol !
I know ethanol got a bad rap when it first came out and people put it in fiberglass tanks and rubber hoses not made for ethanol , but now days all engines can run it .

I have always had good performance and dependability from ALL my engines , both street and marine , and that's all I prefer to run is ethanol gas .