Racing Rules Options

[brianhar]

Over the next month or so, I intend to run a number of polls as a way to ascertain just what racing mods the majority of Australian Macgregor owners want. The result of the polls will form the main decision points to be made in establishing the initial set of Australain Macgregor Racing Rules to be submitted to Yachting Australia as a means of securing a reliable Class Basic Handicap.

Future polls will be on:
s to have a backstay,
Use of IDA rudders
Cruising asymettrical spinnakers only
Bowsprits
Water Ballast

Maybe other topics that others put up?

Can I please ask that only Australian Owners vote in these polls.

Brian

[Hamin' X]

Can I please ask that only Australian Owners vote in these polls.

Brian

Reasonable request, Brian. I would suggest that you restate this in the question of each poll and highlight it. I am sure that no one would intentionally vote from out of your area if you so request, but some might not realize that they are in the Australia forum. I don't think that there is a way to limit this potential problem via the forum software, but I will check.

Keep up the good work. You folks are doing a great job.

~Rich

[swede]

Hi Brian,
No I don,t believe that there should be any modification to the
centreboard. ie, weighted centreboard,bulbkeel, where does it all finish.

[Clemo]

I voted "no" because I like the idea of not having a list of "compulsory mods" before you can race. But now I am wondering, how do we police it? What weight is the standard CB and, how do we weigh them? Question stands for either X or M. Do we just make a declaration?

Tks,
C ya.

[brianhar]

Clemo,
my thoughts on the Policing bit are similar to most trailable yachts that I have raced before. A declaration is made where the skipper makes a declaration as to their adherance to the class rules. The only time that boats are checked is when they are consistantly wining by margins that are just not right, or there is doubt. I've found that most people are honest, particularly when you are going to hold them to their word that they are not going to cheat.

Interestingly enough I know of some boats that consistantly whoop the opposition and had numerous other skippers making accusations about the boat. When the boat was examined, it was just the same as others, just a damned good skipper and crew.

In regards to the weighted centreboard, it would be very obvious if someone had a weighted centreboard when the wind picks up. We'd all be healing over and the errant boat would not (should the decision go that way!).

Brian

[Clemo]

Thanks 4 that.

I expect that, having bought a Mac, we have declared ourselves as cruising sailors in a fairly definative way. That said, when we are in company, put two boats in sight of each other and you have a race. But our primary purpose is sailing for the pleasure.

And the Racing Rules are mainly intended for handicap racing in mixed fleets.

Tks again,
& keep up the good work,
C ya.

[delevi]

A weighted keel would be obvious from the go since there must be a way to raise and lower it. Just look for the block & tackle or dedicated winch. I'm on the other side of the world, but I would suggest all mods be allowed and handicapped per whatever system is adapted.

[brianhar]

Delevi,
let me explain one thing about the Australian system of Handicapping in regards to trailables yachts here. Once a handicap is assigned to a class, that it for all boats of the same class in Australia. Boats that then modify away from the "Class Basic Handicap", then then have to apply for their own special handicap (which is a real pain to do).

Whist to me there certainly are some advantages to having a weighted centreboard, no denying that. The issue then becomes if the Class Basic Handicap is set up to allow for the weighted centreboard, the boats that don't have one are then really battling to compete on an equal basis.

I'm happy to go either way, I just want to see which way the remainder of Aussies want to go.

Brian

[Lease]

Hi Brian,

I know that I haven't been contributing to this debate as I ought to, but unfortunately the pressures on one's time do not seem to be easing as the days pass.

I note with interest that most are opting for non-weighted centreboards. Does everyone know that the M has about 100kgs of permanent ballast already, I wonder? Ultimately, your poll and commentry that folks will provide to your other submissions will help to frame guidelines that are consistent with the thoughts of the majority. This is how it should be. Personally, I hold the view that the variegated nature of the primary models, the numerous sub-models, and the outright inconsistency of the weight, shape, and not to mention owner's mods, is working very much against nailing down any sort of meaningful CBH. None-the-less full credit to your efforts.

I would disagree on one thing though. Whilst it is certainly true that the outcome of the exercise is to establish an Australian Association, I reckon that you ought to not only welcome input from the great mass of experienced users in the US and Canada (no poms though ), but that you ought to actively solicit it. We know that the bigger the sample, the more accurate the statistic, right? Not only that, but there is an absolute bonanza of owners in this place that are both knowledgeable and talented in the fine art of making one of these fat buggers go. Delevi, Scott, the dealers (when they aren't throwing metaphhoric rocks at each other) Frank C, and many, many others here have got real insights into the boat that would be extremely valuable to the outcome of your efforts. Just a thought.

[delevi]

I can see the difficulty in the handicap system, but I don't see any way out. Most people modify their Macs. Some more than others. Do upgraded sails count? How about roachier sails like the KH muschlehead? How about IDA rudders? How about a backstay? The already has one but without adjustment. What if someone added a block & tackle to that? What if you add an adjustable backstay on an ? What if you have a really heave engine? or perhaps a 10 hp kicker? jib, genoa or stormsail? It goes on and on. I don't necessarily have the answer, but one suggestion might be to let any and all mods go. Some mods are good for heavy air but performance will suffer in light air. At the end of the day, it's a wash. Just a thought. I'm a novice to racing and the boat I crew on is in an elaborate PHRF system where everything is factored in, from the size of our genny & A-sail to the electric halyard/mainsail winch. Certainly nothing like a one-design.

[brianhar]

At the risk of repeating myself, I will put it very simply.

The CBH system for trailable yachts in Australia is the only trailable handicapping system available in Australia in use at all yacht clubs in Australia.

This is an attempt to get a CBH for the majority of Mac sailors. One CBH for and another for .

Should you wish to modify your boat outside of what will be the 'box' of measurements and rules that I am trying to establish, please submit your own set of rules and measurements to Yachting Australia and get your own special CBH.

If this is your desire 'go your hardest' and I wish you all the best in your endeavour, but for the rest of us, please stop pouring cold water all over this endeavour.

Brian

[delevi]

Sorry Brian. I had absolutely no intent to "pour cold water on the endeavor." Perhaps I was speaking out of ignorance. Either way, was trying to be helpful but apparently, not so much. Again, I apologize and best of luck getting things going.

Cheers,
Leon