Thinking about buying my first boat.

[GordonGriggs]

Hi, About a week ago I realized that a sailboat might be somthing I might want. I have read and learned a lot from this Forum.Im 42 now, and its been about 20 years since ive been on a boat.

I still have a lot to do before I can get one.

1. I need to find out if I can even be on a boat without getting dizzy spells. I have had a few middle ear infections over the years.
2. Im really interested in the 26m. I don't think I would buy a used one. I bought a great looking chevy el-camino years ago only to find out it was full of bondo. Should have known somthing was wrong when it broke down on me 5 minutes after I bought it.
3. I live in Virginia and want to see a 26m up close before I commit to anything. I did an internet search for boat shows and I think the next one in my area will be somtime next year.
4. I was into drag racing years ago and still have my 1998 Dodge 3500 with only 34000 miles I used to pull my racecar. I bought it new so I know I covered there. My only concern is I would want a trailer with 2 axle's. Will Macgregor build a trailer with an added axle if I pay for it?
5. I have a few more home improvement projects to finish then I can start saving. I think I should be able to buy one Aug or Sept of 2010. Ive been working on home projects for over 2 years now, so Aug 2010 is not that far away for me.
6. Im gonna take a boating safety class.

I just have a few questions. I could not find much info on these.

1. If you in the river, or ocean and want to drop anchor for the night how do you know where and where NOT to stay? I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night with a barge bearing down on me.
2. There is a public boat landing about 20 minutes away from my house. Are landings open 24 hours a day? Im kinda slow at backing a trailer up so I would want to launch just before dark to avoid crowds.
3. On a 26m can anyone tell me how much headroom is in the rearberth? Anyone know the measurements to the lowest point?
4. Do any of the seats have seatbelts?

Thanks!

Gordon

[Kelly Hanson East]

Ill tackle a couple of these....
You would have to add the second axle yourself - plan on about 1500 USD for parts and labour, assuming you would hire a welder to do it.
The single axle trailer is perfectly good for local trailering and launching on a ramp imho.

On anchoring for overnights, here are a couple of points

On any nautical chart, places where boats are expected to anchor are marked. That being said, many Mac owners will anchor in other places, utilising the very shallow draft of the Mac to their advantage. If you anchor in 3 feet of water at low tide, no barge or large vessel can even run into you as they will run aground first!! I often use this on the Hudson river in NY, which has 24 hour large vessel traffic on it.

The other advantage of shallow water anchoring is that the more 'flat' your anchor line (usually called a "rode") is, the better the holding power of your anchor - the angle of the anchor line is determined by how much line you let out, relative to the depth of the water (the ratio being called the "scope")
Shallow water means a relatively flat line and good holding power.

You have to contact the controlling municipality of your ramp to find out when it is open. Often they are open 24 hours.Backing a trailer takes practice, practice, practice...it also helps to have a helper (one you know well, not some guy at the ramp!!) Dont let the weanies who might give you a bad look on a ramp deter you from getting into boating -everyone started somewhere, once.

[c130king]

Also, "no" on the seat belts question.

I recommend you buy a book on sailing and do some reading. And I recommend you do that before you take a sailing course. I took the ASA 101/103 course and that will teach you much of what you want to know.

But the Mac is a great boat.

Good Luck,
Jim

[puggsy]

This is what you can aim for...

And I agree with all that Gordon said...


of course you must watch the tide...but grounding like this cannot harm the

we just had a couple of beers and waited for the water to come back...

[raycarlson]

you can purchase a second axle directly from the supplier which is Unique Functional products for 310.00 shipping included to AZ at least. No welding is required at all on a new M with the aluminum trailer.I would suggest additional hull support also as the factory support was designed to get the boat to the nearest marina only and out at the end of the season to closest storage lot.My boat when loaded for a trip to Mexico for a week or to was over the max rating for the trailer as purchased which at 70mph isn't a good feeling.As a racer you should be able to do all the wrenching yourself and save alot.For 1000.00 I now have a 10,000Lb trailer with over 20 times the hull support the factory provided.The mac26M you will find is a cheap barebones boat at 30,000.00 dollars and requires much modification from the owner(which is half the fun anyway)but if not for the mac I wouldnt have any boat at all.

[aya16]

Dont buy a boat:
They are absolutly no fun at all, Yesterday we went out in our mac and as usual there were at least 8 macs being washed or sitting at the dock waiting to come out of the water, at the end of the day. Those mac people can sure fool people with that grin on their face, you know they are not really having fun, they just pretend to be. Who can blame them, all that money they spent, they better look like they enjoy their boats. By far the launch ramp we use has more macs on a weekend going in and out of the water than any other boats, even the one off's that race every weekend, the numbers are not anywhere near the amount of macs. In our storage area, there are more macs then any other boat.

The owners have been fooled into thinking they are fun and versatile boats. Our ramp in MDR looks like a mac convention on the week end. None of those people are having fun.

Seriously sail boats are not for everyone, Boats are not for every one. To save you some grief later you might want to try a couple things first, like go out on a sailboat first before you buy. You can join sailing clubs all over the place that for a fraction of what a boat would cost, can learn and enjoy sailing. (find out why boats dont have seat belts) you can also meet like minded people that will share information, and get you up to snuff on basic boat handling as well as lots of pointers to keep you from making lots of mistakes, sometimes costly mistakes. Take a coast guard approved boating course too. Like driving a car, the last thing you want to do is jump in a car with out any knowledge of how to drive it. learning about boats and how to use them isnt rocket science, yet without that knowledge you can be a real danger to yourself and others around you. Im so disturbed at the amount of skill (or lack of) that some boaters show, in their very expensive large (any) boats.

Keep reading here and find out why a good used mac is a way better deal than buying new. The cost of a new boat when all said and done can reach 50,000 dollars (and its never all said and done) a used boat that already has been upgraded will cost a whole lot less, and you will still have plenty of mods to do to it later.
Mike

[Russ]

Welcome. Yes, boating can be both relaxing and exciting especially on a boat as versatile as a MacGregor.


1. Maybe you can try renting a boat for a day to see if you get dizzy. Better to learn before you buy. Boats rock a lot and after spending several days on one, I get the "sea legs" and feel the motion.

2. There are boat surveyors, much like home inspectors that will go over a used boat and look for possible problems. But as with home inspectors, there is only so much they can see and there are no guarantees. With that said, the Mac is a fairly simple boat with few things that can go wrong, but if you don't know anything about boating it's best to have an expert check it out. Then you could buy new as I did probably for similar reasons. I didn't want to travel 800 miles to pick up a boat to find something wrong to break the deal. I know the engine is being maintained as is everything else.

3. I bet you could find a Mac close by. Hopefully an owner on this forum might live close to you. Where in Virginia are you? Maybe post a thread. Also, drive down to marinas and such and look for one. Maybe you will luck out and find someone willing to give you a look. I had a guy on the lake follow me into a cove. Then he walked up to us. We were thinking, "This entire lake, why does he come right up next to us?" Then he asked us about the boat saying he was in the market. I was glad to let him have a look and answer questions.

4. We hauled our stock M aluminum trailer from Seattle to Montana without any problems. Our lake is 90 minutes on fast highways and it works just fine with out truck towing it. Your 3500 will probably tow it like it's nothing, however as mentioned above, adding another axle isn't a big deal.

5. Good to plan ahead. It also gives you more time to research it. This board is fantastic and where I started. All the information I found here helped me make my decision to buy a Mac. Roger Macgregor should pay for this site because it was responsible for at lease one sale (mine).

6. Take a boating class. I taught several USPS courses and they do a fine job. here is a link to find one close to you. Many of the people taking our course were shoppers and didn't own boats. You can also meet other soon to be boaters and learn from them.

QUESTIONS:

1. Take a boating course and you will learn to read charts and know the answers to this. We just got back from a fantastic weekend on the water. Our favorite times to be out are in the evenings and mornings. It's so peaceful and relaxing. When it gets dark it's so nice to be out there away from everything.

2. I hear ya on the crowds. Find out where other ramps are. You might find a less crowded one in a place you didn't know about. Also, try going during the week instead of a busy weekend.

3. Headroom in the rear berth? Not much. It's been compared to a pizza oven. This is only a 26' boat. For a boat its size, it's very roomy. Compared to a camper, it's tiny. I can sit (like the girl in the brochure) with lots of room. The rear berth is pretty big, but the foot is not tall.

4. Seatbelts, no. You don't want or need to be held down. There is other safety gear like life jackets that work well.


Boating and sailing is not for everyone. You need to get out on the water to see if it's for you.
I've owned both sailboats and powerboats. Powerboats stay flat better and have more room, but you get bored pretty quickly unless you are into water sports. Sailboats, because they must sail, are rounder and have less room and rock easier. But they are more fun and relaxing. After a stressful week, we spent the whole day Saturday sailing. We used little fuel, could carry on a conversation and enjoyed the day relaxing in the breeze. At night we anchored, barbecued a fantastic dinner with some nice adult beverages. We watched the sun go down on the water and proceeded to stargaze. Morning coffee was greeted by birds and a calm breeze. Now that's living. Later in the afternoon t-storms blew in. Unlike other sailboats, with the Mac we were able to "put the peddle to the metal" and get off the water just before all hull broke loose.
The Mac is a compromise boat. It doesn't sail great and it doesn't motor great, but it allows you to do things neither a powerboat or keel sailboat can do. Plus, you can trailer it to places others can't.

Get some education, read this forum and ask questions. If sailing is your thing, you will find it extremely pleasurable.


--Russ

[Mrs_Skipper]

Gordon,

You are wise to do your homework. My husband and I bought our Mac used from someone who took it out and decided he didn't like sailing. Owner #1 bought it new at a boat show, then never even rigged it... he sold it to owner #2 without it ever touching a drop of water. The guy had big power boats and apparently lost interest in the idea of sailing. Owner #2 thought sailing sounded like a neat idea, so he bought it without any experience other than motor boats. After going out with an experienced Mac 26X sailor who wanted to put the 26M through its paces (lots of heeling!), wife was scared to death and vowed never to set foot on it again. Owner #2 then decided he wanted a a big Formula V instead, so his wife could drink her wine without spilling. So we got a boat that had been sailed twice (three times counting our tryout), which benefited us mightily and resulted in the previous owners losing chunks of their investment. Of course, they could both afford it so I guess it all worked out fine.

Some people take to sailing, some don't. It can be an active sport, and sailboats always seem to need or want this and that done to them. Some people like that, some people don't. My husband had a lot of motorboat experience, so he is good with things like trailoring and tinkering with our motor and parking at piers, etc. It does take time to learn these skills, but I agree that everyone starts somewhere and it is important not to let people rush you. The guy working at the dock where we launched this summer was shouting unintelligible instructions to my husband while backing down the ramp while I tried in vain to give the correct directions. It took twice as long because this guy was really causing confusion. My husband just had to get out of the car and look at where we were to figure out where to turn his tires. then he realized I was giving him the correct information, but it's hard to ignore a shouting ramp attendant. Things like that happen, but they really aren't a big deal. Sometimes we have to try things over a few times before we figure out how to do them.

On the dizzy/seasick issue, I have gotten terribly seasick on other boats (once for 24 hours on a 5-day dive boat trip on the Great Barrier Reef, ugh!) but have had few problems with the sailboat. The only times I've felt ill were when we were moored at a buoy while doing some chores or repair work with a lot of wave action, never when sailing. So, I usually take dramamine or bomine as a preventative measure and never have a problem if I do. Another great gadget is a "relief band", an electric gadget that you wear on a wrist like a backwards wristwatch. (watch face inside your wrist). See http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix_arti ... index.html. I originally got one of these when I was taking flying lessons and you aren't permitted to take any drugs. Worked like a charm! I just ordered one of these again and tried it out while doing attaching our boom and setting up the boat at the beginning of this season. Without taking any medication, I put this on and bobbed around on the mooring for a couple of hours and had no problems at all. I'm keeping this on the boat at all times for use by visitors who don't take medication because "they never get seasick". I've had several of these people on board who do end up feeling ill and they ruin the trip for everyone.

What I do notice when spending multiple days on the boat without going ashore is that when we come in I notice the "sealegs" phenomenon... once I get on land again, I feel like I'm on a boat for about 24 hours! It's an odd feeling but not really a problem.

I think you've made a great choice with the Mac due to its economy, flexibility, and interior comfort. As to the rear berth, I'm 5'9" and my husband is 6'3" and it seems luxuriously comfortable to us. We got one of those thick mattress pads to put on top of the cusions and I'd rather sleep there than most motel beds! Since there is so much headroom, it doesn't seem claustrophobic. It takes me a minute to crawl in and out, but once there it is very comfortable.

Good luck to you with your investigations!

[dxg68]

I am 38 and never had any kind of boat in my life. I bought a brand new 2009 this April from Bill Beers. It came with 60HP E-Tec. I sail on Lake Erie near Cleveland. The boat is great. It does need many mods but it is simple and fun to use.

Two things about this boat that are the most important to me:

1. I can sail in 20 mph winds and 4 – 5 feet waves and enjoy it.

2. I can easily pull my 140 lb son on a wakeboard without water ballast at 19 – 20 mph.

[irayone]

Great advise here... My 2 cents Take the classes American sailing association 101 basic keel boat, 103 basic chartering, 104 coastal crusing, 105 navagation and 106 offshore passage. There are classes that offer livaboard for a week and sail offshore which you can take all the classes at once.. Wth this certification you can charter up to a 50 footer. With a small crew it comes to about 100.00 per day on a big new boat that you don't have to clean or fix. With all this education you will be able to make a successfull economic decision on what to buy and if you even like it. If I didn't own a mac I would just charter. why???? because I have owned lots of boats....Most of the boats at the marina never leave. Why? You have to ask yourself is it worth it to buy a 30,000.00 boat and not use it????How much time do you realisticly think you will be on the water. Unless of course you are wealthy and have lots of time......Too cold to sail in winter so you have 6 months out of the year. Every weekend or one week per month????? Will the weather be nice on the 6 weeks I pick? You see the point I am trying to make. How much time will you actually use the boat? So charter a big new boat and save your money.
With this certification you can always sail on other peoples boats for free... http/:www.crewlist.com i have sailed up and down the california coast helping people get there boats to where they want to go. There is aways someone outthere who hates the midnight watch and is willing to pay your way.

[irayone]

AND ONE MORE THING ....IF YOU DON'T TAKE THE CLASSES (DON'T WANT TO BE RUDE) STAY OUT OF THE WATER. YOU ARE DANGERING YOUR LIFE AND THE LIVES OF OTHERS. YOU THE CAPTIAN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LIFE OF YOUR CREW.THIS IS NO JOKE.

[GordonGriggs]

Thanks for all the help!

I just ordered "America's Boating Course". This looks like a good place to start. I went through one of the online lessons and learned a lot. I'll spend a few weeks, or month's studying this course.

Im sure the Macgregor trailor can handle the boat under normal driving. What worries me is what happens if I blow a tire. Then there is nothing holding up one side of the trailer. Last year I was driving home from work when an 18 wheeler ran of the road, overcorrected and turned over right in front of me. He hit a sign and a large chunk of concrete from the base of the sign hit one of my tires. It did not blow then, but the next morning it was flat with a huge gash in the sidewall. I still don't understand why it did not blow out completely while I was driving.

I like to plan for the worst, but hope for the best.

I am going to go out on a boat before I buy anything.

I just looked up dramamine. The walgreen's brand has 25mg of Meclizine. Last time I had a middle ear infection I was so sick and dizzy I had to crawl to the bathroom. My doctor gave me some Meclazine. It was amazing. A few hours after I took the meclazine I was fine.Im sure this will work for me.


I have read all the replies I got and Im really grateful for your help!

Thanks!

Gordon

[Québec 1]

Don't buy anything for the boat until you have the boat. That way you won't have stuff you don't need hanging around wasting space and money. I speak from experience.
Q1

[kmclemore]

I just looked up dramamine. The walgreen's brand has 25mg of Meclizine. Last time I had a middle ear infection I was so sick and dizzy I had to crawl to the bathroom. My doctor gave me some Meclazine. It was amazing. A few hours after I took the meclazine I was fine.Im sure this will work for me.

I tend to go the natural route, and it works *very* well - ginger. Anything that has ginger in it - ginger ale, ginger snaps, even raw ginger like you can get with sushi... it's all good, and works very well indeed. And no drugs!

And I second the vote on not buying anything before you get - *and sail* - the boat a few times.

As for tires, they rarely 'blow'... they usually leak down, either slowly or more rapidly, and in any event you'll have time to react. Stop regularly to check on the trailer, pay attention to the temperature, pressure and condition of your tires and you'll likely never have a problem. And don't forget the bearings - strip, clean and regrease them every few years, at least.

[irayone]

Qubec is right I made the same mistake..... Don't have fun at west marine untill you play with the boat. Another thing is the new 30,000.00 boat will be stripped. No hand rails, porta pot, anchor etc go to the www.macgregorsales at the office.com and see the list of options. For example the swim step is cool but hard to use. I have 2. One is a portable that attaches to the side. Must have halyards to cockpit. Before you get the anchor check what conditions you will be anchoring in then deside. Get the 90 Hp motor if you can you will be much better off.Do you actually need 2 12 gal gas tanks. How far will you be going? Catalina...Yes you need 2. Furrling jib is a must.....I opted for the regular jib...However people here like the genoa which can furll in to become smaller. Do you need 2 batteries? Are you going over night you will need 2. Shore power. I have it but never use it. I also never use the dinette cushions. The boat gets crouded with more than 4. The galley is always in the forward position so I don't use those cushions that cover the galley. I put 2 ice chest rear of the galley. Compass is a must have. Do you need GPS? Are you going where you have never been? Depth sounder. Built in radio stereo, VHF radio. Some people use a hand held and a boom box. You can find life jackets never used at the good will. An old mirror for signaling, a wistle, my friend has a bugle as a horn....What will you become...A lake day sailor....or coastal crusier. A good read is Chapmans seamanship.
Good Luck and Fair Winds.