alcohol or propane stove?

[jwhy]

Is the $400 alcohol stove worth it or would a small propane camp stove be better in the galley?

[c130king]

I'll chime in. I do not think the alcohol stove is worth $400. I have seen one and was not impressed with its heat or with its lack of "ease of use"...but others may have different opinions on those issues.

Being a long time Boy Scout and Scout Leader I am very comfortable using Propane Camping Stoves and that is the avenue I will go when I get to that point in my sailing adventures...not quite there yet. These are "camping" stoves and that is what I will be doing..."camping" in my Mac.

However, the safety conscious sailors have issues with propane inside the cabin as it doesn't evaporate, will collect in the lower regions of the boat (if any leaks/spills) and could pose a fire/explosion hazard. I will probably use the stove in the cockpit and not inside the cabin and store the propane bottles in a PVC tube (which I already have...thanks Dad) attached to the mast support arch.

I will probably do a double burner stove and a small propane grill...both to be used in the cockpit.

Just my $.02 worth.

Cheers,
Jim

P.S. Welcome to the board.

[Wind Chime]

I believe there are some other threads on this topic if you can find them in the search option.

We use a Coleman 2 burner propane camp stove.

I attached it to the galley counter to left of the sink. (I also attached a wooden cutting board to the top so as not to lose the space. Also another cutting board over the sink for same reason).

We only use the small green propane bottles and store them in the fuel locker and we always have the companion way hatch fully open when using it.

We also have a single burner Butane unit that we use in the cockpit or on the dock for the crab-pot.

Darry

[nedmiller]

I agree that you should do a search and find the very thoughtful discussions on this issue. I would not leave the little green bottles attached for fear of a slow leak. Every time you attach or detach the bottle, there is a small amount of propane that escapes. Leaving doors and hatches open will probably do little good because propane sinks to the lowest part of the boat, which, unlike a motor home or trailer, cannot have an outlet. Propane can be used safely on a boat but you must purchase the necessary safety equipment and alarms.

We use a Origo stainless alcohol stove. It is simple to operate, and we have never needed to repair any part of the stove and with no corrosion. I can imagine that it will be with us as long as we sail. It was expensive to purchase initially, but when divided by the years and years of safe, trouble-free use, it was a bargain, and I can get a good price for it if I decided to sell after using it for years.

Ned

[Québec 1]

I agree that you should do a search and find the very thoughtful discussions on this issue. I would not leave the little green bottles attached for fear of a slow leak. Every time you attach or detach the bottle, there is a small amount of propane that escapes. Leaving doors and hatches open will probably do little good because propane sinks to the lowest part of the boat, which, unlike a motor home or trailer, cannot have an outlet. Propane can be used safely on a boat but you must purchase the necessary safety equipment and alarms.

We use a Origo stainless alcohol stove. It is simple to operate, and we have never needed to repair any part of the stove and with no corrosion. I can imagine that it will be with us as long as we sail. It was expensive to purchase initially, but when divided by the years and years of safe, trouble-free use, it was a bargain, and I can get a good price for it if I decided to sell after using it for years.

Ned

My Origo came with the boat and I have used it more often as a cabin heater than a cook stove( but then I live here............. where 3 consecutive days of nice weather is exceptional). As a cook stove it makes a pot of water boil as quickly as anything else I ever used so I can't complain...and it is safe and the methyl hydrate fuel is cheaper than green propane bottles...which I use for my BBQ which is used 90% of the time for cooking anyways. Even cooked frozen thin crust pizza's on my BBQ this summer... but my favorite best meals on the force ten BBQ is salmon steak and filet mignon with salad in a bag, red wine and scotch, brandy or cognac.
Q1
p.s. I also use to camp a lot and used the Coleman stove all the time. Camping is no longer in the books much as its cheaper and more fun to camp out on the boat at the marina ..with no mud,crappy toilets and line ups at the showers.
Q1

[Kelly Hanson East]

The small amount of propane on release isnt the issue, its the issue of either leaky stove or bottle. In another thread, I ran the calculation to show the lack of danger from the small 'phut' you get when you disconnect.

Because your boat contains the fumes, a slow leak (either from a bad canister) or from a stove left on (perhaps with a valve cracked) can KILL you. Using propane safely at camp isnt relevant to using it safely on a boat, imho. It is a good starting point, however.

Ive used propane on a portable stove with a smoke and CO detector (but no propane detector) on my for 7 seasons without incident. I use a combination of common sense and strict protocols - fuel bottles go on stove, it is lit, it is supervised 100% of time, it is extinguished, bottle is removed and returned to fuel locker. You learn to heat the water for coffee and dishes all in one use, but safety trumps convenience.

Last note - DO NOT REFILL PROPANE CYLINDERS. The 1 USD you save you can get by hunting for propane cylinders on sale. If you want to save money on this fuel, buy a bulk 10# cylinder - see mods.

[Rick Westlake]

I'm somewhat on the horns of that same dilemma ...

Bossa Nova's previous owner left a Kenyon "Galley Express" butane stove on board, and I've used it a couple of times with good success. It'll heat up a can of chili in a couple of minutes, and it takes maybe seven or eight minutes to boil a litre of water for my morning yerba maté. I keep it in its storage case under the dinette, and when I'm cooking, I secure it in place with a wing-nut through the stove base and the galley top.

I am cautious about the gas, though - same as Kelly Hanson East. I only use the stove at anchor, and I open up the cabin for ventilation when I am using it. When I'm finished cooking, I remove the cartridge and keep it outside the cabin - I have a box for them in one of the gas-tank lazarettes.

I also have an Origo "Heat Pal" alcohol cabin-heater which I haven't used yet. I bought it last month at the Seven Seas Cruising Association's Annapolis "Gam" - used, at the flea market, for $30. It doubles as a single-burner stove, but Origo themselves downplay its efficiency in this role - their user's manual says "15 minutes" to boil a litre of water. (This is probably due to the flame-diffuser in the heater - they claim "10 minutes" for the stove to boil a litre of water.) I've heard that alcohol isn't as efficient a stove fuel as propane or butane, and I know it's more expensive....

The notion of a "built-in" stove is pleasant, but a $400 price tag is less pleasant. Of course, the Wallas kerosene-fuel stove/heater from Scan Marine would be best of all - it vents all combustion gases outside of the cabin, and has a forced-air heater lid - but the quoted price at the Annapolis Sailboat Show was $1700!

I will say that you'll be out a lot less money for the butane stove - both in stove price and fuel price. Defender.com has the Kenyon Galley Express butane stove for $40 plus shipping - and I've seen good ones for less at the larger Asian-food grocery stores in my area. Lots of people use them as table-top grills in their homes. Asian groceries are also the best place to buy the cartridges.

BTW - Defender.com also has a "Cookmate" built-in alcohol stove, similar to the Origo 2000, for $230 in a single-burner version, or $330 for a double-burner stove.

For all of these options - remenber - SAFETY FIRST!!!!

[James V]

This is going to be a personal choice in the long run. Most people have the propane. The Keyton stove is butane and is lighter than air fumes. it will freeze the same temps as water.

Force 10 has a new 2 burner countertop that looks nice. The old single burner Seacock is no longer made for now. very nice.

the problem with the alcohol is the lower burning temps and a flame that is hard to see.

I have seen all and most are happy with their stoves.

Be sane and save will go a long way to make things a save voyage. Repairs when needed.

[Russ]

$400 is pricey.

If you want safe, as mentioned, alcohol is safer. No heavier than air vapors and the fuel can be diluted with water and a fire doused with water as well.
I absolutely hated the alcohol stove on my last boat. Granted it was older and technology has improved, but it would gunk the fuel up and the preheating was such a pain. The thing would spurt and sputter and make ghastly noises. It was bad. I have not heard of those complaints from new models.

We use a 1 burner butane stove. It's cheap and simple. We keep the canisters outside and always make sure we have good ventilation. Sniff the "bilge" to see if any gas has accumulated there. We mostly use it to make coffee.
For most everything else we use the Magma grill off the transom. We've cooked pizza (which was very good), steaks, biscuits, garlic bread and just about anything.

--Russ

[Rick Westlake]

This is going to be a personal choice in the long run. Most people have the propane. The Keyton stove is butane and is lighter than air fumes. it will freeze the same temps as water.

Butane gas is twice as heavy as air (2.5 kg per cubic meter at sea-level pressure and 15°C, compared to 1.2 kg for a cubic meter of air - figures from Wikipedia). Propane is 1.8 kg/m³ - half again as heavy as air. This is why a leaky cartridge is such a hazard - and why I don't store these fuel cartridges below-decks.

Ethanol is a liquid at inside-your-boat temperatures. The Origo and Cookmate stoves use a fuel cartridge that's packed with spun wool; this absorbs the alcohol and keeps it from spilling, but wicks it to the top opening so it can vaporize and burn. The stove's "damper" is a stainless-steel plate that cuts off the alcohol vapors when you flip it to "off". All the same, I would like a screw-on gasketed lid (like that on the little Trangia stoves) for when I'm finished cooking....

My only experience with alcohol stoves is with the Trangia stoves. They have a very limited burn-time, compared with those listed for the Origo cartridges.

[bastonjock]

i gave up my little propane stove after it spat most of a can of propane out,i now have an origo double burner alcohol stove,i am however dissapointed in the build quality of a stove that cost $400.00.It is safer than propane but it gives off a black soot that collects on the white insides of the boat.

[Chinook]

This topic has been kicked around a lot in the past. The convenience and reliability of propane makes it very attractive. The safety considerations seem to be well addressed by the precautions mentioned in comments above. However, if you're doing any amount of cruising in colder areas like we have in the northwest, you'll frequently encounter situations when you want to be below, cooking on your stove, and with the hatch snugly closed up. In such situations, the Wallas stove, which burns mineral spirits or kerosene, with externally vented exhaust, is really an excellent choice. If you have a stove with the fan hood, the stove doubles as a very effective cabin heater. The two downsides of the Wallas are its initial cost, and the fact that it sometimes becomes finicky to light. I've managed to figure out the personality quirks of ours, and it's become a very reliable stove/heater. And, on those rare occasions when it acts up, I carry a Coleman propane screw on burner for the little propane bottles, as a backup.

[Bransher]

Before making a decision concerning alcohol or propane stove, perhaps viewing this video may help you make a decision.

[Bluecrab]

I didn't like the price tag of the Origo stoves either. After researching this board I found people generally liked them and someone even timed how long it took to make his coffee vs a propane stove and found very little difference. Not being in a hurry to get one I kept an eye on Ebay. Lost a bid on one I was following a few days that went for $107.50 and found a "Buy it now" for $80.00 and bought it.

I have installed it but not used it, winter is here in Minnesota and I don't think I will get out again this year. The one I have has the glass cover and not the cutting board. The only complaint I have is that the hinge in the back is flush with counter top an the class top binds when you try lift the lid to get inside. I may use some foam tape under the mounting flange to raise it up. That should also seal it so in case of a spill on the counter it won't run inside the galley.

Wally

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Non pressurized alcohol stoves such as the Origgo are certainly the safest. They also are the slowest to heat food and water. That said, I'm perfectly happy with our Origgo double burner that has been in the boat for the last 9 years and has performed just fine. While it takes a while, it eventually boils even our large pot full of water for cooking 2 or 3 six inch crabs at the same time.

The two big safety differences between alcohol and Propane or Butane are:

Both Propane and Butane are heavier than air and simply having good ventilation will not change the fact that any fuel spilled will flow like invisible water to the bilges where it will accumulate and is very hard to remove. Using propane in a boat is very different than using one in a RV or out camping. A true marine propane solution will have the fuel always stored outside in a locker that has a overboard drain, likewise there is sometimes a pan and drain under the appliance and there is always a leak detector that will shut off the flow of gas the instant the flame goes out at the tank, not the appliance.

The other big safety difference is what it takes to ignite the spilled fuel. All Butane or Propane need is a spark from any source, even a bilge pump motor starting can set it off. Spilled alcohol cannot be ignited by a spark. It takes an open flame to light alcohol. Sparkers are no good for lighting an alcohol stove, you have to use a lit match or lighter.

I love my propane BBQ out on the transom where it is perfectly safe to operate, but would never go for a portable propane or butane stove below. The only other stove I would use below is the Wallas, but because of the M sliding galley it cannot be vented like an X installation can. You'd have to lock the galley in place if you wanted to install one of them in an M.