CAN YOU BELIEVE . . . STILL MORE ETEC QUESTIONS?

[mika]

Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my numerous rookie questions. As an about-to-be new MacGregorM owner, I have been trying to instantly absorb volumes of wisdom from you seasoned sailors. (Wish I comprehended it all!) My wife . . . uh, I guess I'm supposed to say "the admiral", huh? . . . thinks she's lost her mate, as he sits up in the we small hours of the morning night after night scrutinizing as many as possible of the current and past posts on this incredible website.

In shopping for a new ETEC, the bidding engine dealers, who have no experience with MacGregors, are asking me questions and I think I had better double-check with you guys regarding the answers:

(1) Shaft Length - Is the normal shaft length (20") perfectly appropriate for Mac? As we all know, many, if not most, sailboats need an extended shaft length.
(2) Prop - Is the standard prop that comes on the motor out of the factory the best one for our Macs? Several different props are available. Which ETEC prop is the best performer?
(3) Installation - Does the engine dealer need to know anything about any uniqueness of the MAC in order to install the motor "correctly"? Can they go wrong in any way?
(4) Transom Wedge - There's been much discussion on this board about wedges, but those have been in the context of other brands of engine. Is there any reason to consider a wedge for the ETEC? If so, please explain.
(5) Controls - Are the normal, ETEC factory controls for the steering pedestal the way to go?
(6) Fuel Tank - Does a standard 12 gallon fuel tank fit properly into the fuel tank compartment of the Mac, or are there special tank dimensions I need to seek out?

I was considering moving up to higher horsepower, but seems like the added power may be offset by the added motor weight. The 75 and 90 HP ETECs weigh 80 pounds more than the 60. From what I've read here, the MAC's performance is substantially impacted by the weight on board. I also know one needs to check out the physical size issue, since some engines are too tall to go under the seat. Comments?

Thanks again for your learned advice! I appreciate your taking the time. Moving forward, there will probably be many more inquiries from me. Hope ya don't tire of them.

[tonymi]

I don't know the answers to questions 1 thru 4, and the reason I chose the ETEC-60 is so that I wouldn't have to worry about such issues. I get a certain amount of comfort out of having a factory-installed engine. I figured that the odds that the factory would screw it up were a lot lower than if an engine dealer did it. As for question 6, the 12-gallon tank I ordered as an option fits perfectly. Question 5: the factory controls are okay with one qualifier. The ETEC owner's manual assumes the throttle has a fast idle button used for fogging the motor for off-season storage, but the throttle supplied by MacGregor doesn't have one, at least on my boat. Instead you have to pull the throttle lever away from the pedestal. This isn't documented anywhere that I could find, I learned about it from this list - see thread http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =9&t=16947.

[kadet]

I was considering moving up to higher horsepower, but seems like the added power may be offset by the added motor weight. The 75 and 90 HP ETECs weigh 80 pounds more than the 60. From what I've read here, the MAC's performance is substantially impacted by the weight on board. I also know one needs to check out the physical size issue, since some engines are too tall to go under the seat. Comments?

As I have said previously I talked myself out of getting an ETEC 90 three years ago and have regretted it ever since. Reasons are.
1. The 75 and 90 are the same motor just different tune.
2. The 90 ETEC is not physically much bigger than some of the old 50s that were installed on the early and
3. Weight is an issue with Macs every getting close to advertised speeds so more available horsepower helps achieve better performance under power.
4. You would not have to flog the 90 at WOT all the time to achieve reasonable cruising speeds.
5. An extra 80 pounds on a boat with gear that weighs close to 3000 pounds is a 2.66% increase in weight for a 50% increase in available power.

Reasons I did not go with the 90.
1. Liability these boats are not rated for a 90.
2. Extra cost.
3. Reduced sailing performance.
4. Did not think I would motor that much as I like sailing.
5. Thought I would be mostly in choppy water so could not motor fast anyway. (wrong chop is caused by wind, wind = sail )

Really think about what type of boating you are going to do, how far are you going to motor? What type of sea conditions are you going to be in? How much stuff are you gong to put in the boat? How many people will be on board? If the majority of your powering will be under 12knots then a 60 is fine, if over then maybe not. The is perfect for me as I almost exactly spend half my boating sailing and motoring so is a lot less expensive than owning two purpose built boats.
These boats are a great compromise but they are a compromise what helps in one area detracts from the other. I have learnt to live with the 60 because I cannot justify going out and buying a new motor, but I often wonder what if, especially when the bay is glassed out .

One last point, you can always throttle back a 90 to give 60 performance, you cannot throttle up a 60 to give 90 performance.

[pokerrick1]

I had a 60 E-Tec and was in love with it - - - but I have been on several Macs equipped with 90's and I am 50% more in love with them.

The difference sailing with a 90 vs a 60 is not noticeable. The difference between a 90 vs a 60 motoring is about 50%. There are no serious installation nor gas tank problems.

If you can afford it go with the 90. I would prefer a Mac dealer (especially the factory - I don't know where you are buying yours) for installation rather than an Evinrude dealer.

Rick

[mika]

Thanks, guys, for the excellent advice. You've given me much to think about. I hope I still get more input on this.

A number of you mentioned getting the ETEC installed at the factory. I'm under the impression I don't have that option.

There are excellent dealers out there and I have liked talking to each of them. But I decided to go with the dealer who was geographically closest to me and who offers free assistance with new boat installation of hardware and rigging. He also gave me the best price. This guy is one of the largest volume Mac dealers in the Country and all references speak highly of him. But he says he doesn't deal with the outboards. So I was left with the impression that a factory-installed ETEC is not an option for me. (Guess I'll have to ask him to clarify that.) Beyond that, would the factory install an ETEC of greater than 60 HP? Hmmm.

[jschrade]

Pretty sure that the factory will not install anything above an ETEC 60 but I could be wrong. Blue Water Yachts will put on anything you want but lean heavily towards the Suzuki's. I believe that John at Supersail will also put whatever you want on.

As many have said be sure of what YOU intend to do with your boat. Bigger displacements simply burn more fuel - we use to joke my friends GTO got a mile to the gallon! It's the same with boat motors, larger displacements can throttle back as they are consuming more fuel per stroke and hence creating more power. In net, you are using close to the same fuel as WOT on the small engine. The difference with the larger displacement is that you can consume more fuel and go faster than the smaller engine by generating more power. I like carrying on a 6 gallon gas tank that will last many weekend trips.

If I could fix one thing on my ETEC 60, it would be to make it as quiet as a 4 stroke. There is a considerable difference in noise level. You can talk over the ETEC, you don't even hardly know the 4 stroke is running.

Jim

[Hardcrab]

As far as fuel tanks go, consider using 4 of the 6 gallon tanks, ( not the 6 1/2 gallon common types).
They are much more portable, and the fit is perfect if you get the correct tanks.

There are volumes of point /counter-point on this issue in the archives.
Read throught it and gain some insight before you decide.
Search for: Evinrude/ Johnson Duratank

[Catigale]

I figured that the odds that the factory would screw it up were a lot lower than if an engine dealer did it.

I have to interject that buying a boat and a motor is completely different than buying a car. There is no such thing as a 'factory motor' on a Mac. Dealers (and the factory) will recommend the brand they carry, since that is where they make their money. The reason they dont carry all brands is that each motor manufacturer makes them invest in service tooling and training to install their brand. There is nothing wrong with this - you just have to understand the playing field and why the recommend what they do.

Once your engine is installed, the only person who will care about it is you..if you do have a problem with it and the installing dealer is 5 hours away, your experience and good price will quickly be forgotten, as the adage goes. Depending on where you live, you can wait 1-2 months for a service issue to be resolved, which will quickly erode your sailing time.

When Catigales motor gives out - my next motor will certainly be one that I can take on/off myself - probably the low end Nissan 4 stroke battery-less Fuel injected 25 or 30 HP motor....hopefully this is still 5 years away or more.

[vkmaynard]

Pretty sure that the factory will not install anything above an ETEC 60 but I could be wrong. Blue Water Yachts will put on anything you want but lean heavily towards the Suzuki's. I believe that John at Supersail will also put whatever you want on.

As many have said be sure of what YOU intend to do with your boat. Bigger displacements simply burn more fuel - we use to joke my friends GTO got a mile to the gallon! It's the same with boat motors, larger displacements can throttle back as they are consuming more fuel per stroke and hence creating more power. In net, you are using close to the same fuel as WOT on the small engine. The difference with the larger displacement is that you can consume more fuel and go faster than the smaller engine by generating more power. I like carrying on a 6 gallon gas tank that will last many weekend trips.

If I could fix one thing on my ETEC 60, it would be to make it as quiet as a 4 stroke. There is a considerable difference in noise level. You can talk over the ETEC, you don't even hardly know the 4 stroke is running.

Jim

Someone who tells it like it is.

Our Honda really consumed gas when running WOT wakeboarding, cruising 45 mi into a headwind, high cruise when loaded trying to get out of not nice situations, etc. The 90 Suzuki probably uses about the same amount of gas at lower throttle settings with more performance. The new 90 is more annoying than the old 90 at some throttle settings but quieter at WOT (you can easily talk at 6200 RPM) and more fuel efficient.

The comment on the larger motor begin a liability due to boat design limitation is not correct. The transom is as thick as other boats that recommend a 150 Hp motor. Has anyone on this board broken their transom due to a larger motor install (assume they at least put a top inside backing plate)? Ask Billy (XX), he’s had his Suzuki 140 on his X since 2001 (no damage and he IS crazy).

Also the comment on a heavier motor hurting sailing performance and a Mac is really an oxymoron. You can add nearly the same extra weight with another marine battery (we have two), and many of the other great mods people add. Sailing performance difference between Macs will mostly be decided by the skippers.

Decide what you want do with your boat. Consider a larger motor if you have kids that you want to keep interested in your boat (big consideration). Avoid a “kicker” motor. It is supposed to be a POWER sailor. I would personally rather by a real performance sailboat if that was my intention. See if you can get a ride on a higher powered boat then decide. Very few wish they had less. Ask Road Solider, he definitely has less:)

We probably would not have upgraded our 50 Hp if we did not have kids and their friends that liked real wakeboarding (21-22 MPH). But then Billy (XX) pulled us over to the dark side after a ride on his 140 Hp X. Looking back, if we bought a new Mac, the first motor I would buy would be 90 Hp on an X and 100-115 Hp on an M.

There is realistically very little maintenance difference between a four stroke and a two stroke (oil change every three years with synthetic for us).

If anyone wants a ride on our 90 Hp X in Apex NC, contact me and I’ll gladly force myself to take you out 10 min from my house:)

All IMHO.

Victor