Portable Generator

[mallardjusted]

Hamin ......I guess my point is if noise is an issue to a person (it is to me), it would be worth it to do more research and maybe see if you could actually find one to listen to at load. My brother-in-law had a "Kipor" 2000 that said it was "super-quiet". While it was better than the older or cheapest gens, it was still noticeably louder than the equivalent Hondas or Yamahas. But I understand that the price difference is enough it is worth investigating.

[vkmaynard]

Every +3 db is a 50% increase in noise. 6 db is a lot of difference.

[Divecoz]

Victor?? You compared a $100=$200 Unit with a $1000 unit?? Really?? How about we compare even a $150,000 Seaward with your Mac X??

How much less is "less than expected" for noise and vibration? The Honda could be quieter if possible.

When I ran a Honda against a beater Chinese Northern Tool brand a few years back there was a BIG difference in noise and vibration. The Chinese generator took off across the floor. I was told the beater brands area all made by a couple of Chinese companies under different names.

Thanks,

Victor

[Divecoz]

Help me out here ? What am I doing wrong? I just checked my Fender Amp with my Db meter.. I came up to 50 Db then raised the output to 53 Dd There is a difference but IMHO its Not anywhere near half again.. louder.. ( Maybe too many years standing in front of much bigger amps )..

Every +3 db is a 50% increase in noise. 6 db is a lot of difference.

[paj637]

So round about, every one dB quieter for the honda would cost me about $100 for a generator that I may use 5 or 6 times a year and more seldom at full load.

I estimate that I would normally run it at 50-60% full load with the a/c and battery charger.

I can put the extra $600 to work somewhere else.

Not knocking Hondas, they are great machines. Champion may just fit the bill for me at this time in my sailing life. If I go to being a dedicated cruiser, I would look to Hondas again.

[vkmaynard]

Victor?? You compared a $100=$200 Unit with a $1000 unit?? Really?? How about we compare even a $150,000 Seaward with your Mac X??

Actually it's a $483 unit with tax compared to a $895 shipped. I don't think the Mac costs $80,950.

I was simply stating scientific fact on DB ratings. We usually end up in a group so I would not run a loud generator out of courtesy.

I wish someone finally compete with Honda. We don't own one due the cost.

Victor

[Divecoz]

Victor I am just looking for answers but..."""When I ran a Honda against a beater Chinese Northern Tool brand a few years back """"
Those units TTBOMK were all in the $100 to $200 + a little $$... maybe .. whatever..
So, I will then ask you? Was it a Champion you used for comparison at $500 or a $200 Beater?
As for dB ratings versus audio effects? I am aware the results are inversely proportional. I feel, I am just not see the difference you quoted..
HaminX: I will agree with you hypothesis.. Cheap Marketing tool.. By Cheap I mean.. The Penny Pinching Million Dollar a Year CEO who ordered, using Babelfish translation for FREE versus an Accredited.. Professional Translation.. No Doubt , in what you often do,( Electronics Radios and the like) you've seen just exactly what I describe.. Something you've built or assembled 100 times and if going by those cheap Babelfish and then likes , free translation programs?? There's No Way you could assemble it using those directions . We've all see it hahaha. I am thinking, there is no less than a good chance , thats what we are seeing here.. Likened to.. Measuring with a Micrometer , Marking with a Diamond Scribe and cutting it with a chainsaw...
Marketing can make or break you..

[Hamin' X]

Marketing can make or break you..

Yep, which is why my skepticism. If they are this careless with their marketing...?

As to cost, I have been holding off on my purchase of a generator, (already have a 5500W contractor model for the farm). Last week, on the local AM radio trading post (may be called something different in your area), someone had a Honda EU1000i for sale; $450 asking price. I offered $400 cash and picked up a cherry unit. I suggest that you keep an eye on Craigslist, Nickel Ads and the like.

As for the difference in sound levels, Dive. The human ear is not a linear device. It takes a great increase in sound level for our ears to notice a slight difference. If you have ever done work on audio devices, you know that the controls have what is call "audio taper": Meaning that as you turn the control higher, it is greatly increasing the power for a given control deviation.

~Rich

[Divecoz]

I didnt find that to be true .. I have assembled Huge pieces of machinery from all over the world, and I found the opposite to be true..BUT thats just my experience. Yamaha Outboards, in the begining were a perfect example.. Great Engines.. (Proven in International Patent court) Absolute copies of Johnson Outboards.. However the Mechanics English Language Manual.. Incomprehensible..
dB levels versus what we as humans perceive, thats what we are talking about.. Yes there is a difference and it can be huge but as I see it , that difference isn't IMHO relative..

Marketing can make or break you..

Yep, which is why my skepticism. If they are this careless with their marketing...?

As to cost, I have been holding off on my purchase of a generator, (already have a 5500W contractor model for the farm). Last week, on the local AM radio trading post (may be called something different in your area), someone had a Honda EU1000i for sale; $450 asking price. I offered $400 cash and picked up a cherry unit. I suggest that you keep an eye on Craigslist, Nickel Ads and the like.

As for the difference in sound levels, Dive. The human ear is not a linear device. It takes a great increase in sound level for our ears to notice a slight difference. If you have ever done work on audio devices, you know that the controls have what is call "audio taper": Meaning that as you turn the control higher, it is greatly increasing the power for a given control deviation.

~Rich

[vkmaynard]

All American Power $500, same Chinese type brand with the same specs. BIG difference in noise and vibration compared to the Honda. I really don't understand why it is so hard to copy the Honda sound.

You get what you pay for in protable generators and most things in life.

[kmclemore]

Just as a rule of thumb, I've found that my (and others) 'annoyance threshold' for sounds is highly dependent on who is producing the sound in question. If I am producing the sounds, I can tolerate quite a bit, but the guy in the slip next to me is gonna get annoyed at a far lower threshold than I would. Similarly, the converse it true... his noise = my annoyance.

[Divecoz]

Thank You Victor.. thats what I needed to know.. as for why no one has copied Honda ?? Ya Got me .. Yamaha did it with outboards .. they did it exactly.. found guilty and then .... just ignored the courts findings and rulings.. I dont understand how that worked either .. To be honest with you at these levels I dont know how or why any of this stuff works ( International Copy Rights and Patents that is..) ..
I think before I put out $1000 for a gen-set thats noisy stinky in the way I'll be spending it on solar panels and controls etc etc ...

All American Power $500, same Chinese type brand with the same specs. BIG difference in noise and vibration compared to the Honda. I really don't understand why it is so hard to copy the Honda sound.

You get what you pay for in protable generators and most things in life.

[Divecoz]

So Very True.. and it holds to be true in most things..

Just as a rule of thumb, I've found that my (and others) 'annoyance threshold' for sounds is highly dependent on who is producing the sound in question. If I am producing the sounds, I can tolerate quite a bit, but the guy in the slip next to me is gonna get annoyed at a far lower threshold than I would. Similarly, the converse it true... his noise = my annoyance.

[trdprotruck]

I think the Kipor IG2000 is supposed to be a good knock off of the Honda. It's also a lot pricier than the other Chinese generators though.

Thank You Victor.. thats what I needed to know.. as for why no one has copied Honda ?? Ya Got me .. Yamaha did it with outboards .. they did it exactly.. found guilty and then .... just ignored the courts findings and rulings.. I dont understand how that worked either .. To be honest with you at these levels I dont know how or why any of this stuff works ..

All American Power $500, same Chinese type brand with the same specs. BIG difference in noise and vibration compared to the Honda. I really don't understand why it is so hard to copy the Honda sound.

You get what you pay for in protable generators and most things in life.

[magnetic]

The problem with Chinese generators is getting spares; I run one of these and am very very pleased with it -
If it goes wrong, though, it's probably a "Burial at Sea" job and buy a new one.

It fits neatly behind the steering pedestal with the engine either up or down; the helmsman's seat offers some degree of weather protection, and when it rains I tile the old companionway hatch cover over it to keep the water off and it works fine. The exhaust muffler gets red hot, and if you place it upon one one of the cockpit seats, it will discolour the gelcoat and (if you leave it long enough) probably burn a hole. I know - I was that man.

There is an inbuilt overload which trips above 2.0 KvA, but the AC socket covers are too restrictive to allow a garden RCD device to be fitted. Vibration not too bad, exhaust vents out over the stern past the engine well (hence limiting the opportunity for fumes to enter the cabin). I agree wholeheartedly about the need to fit a Carbon Monoxide alarm, though my aircon duct vents into the cockpit footwell, which also ensures a steady flow of hot air backwards from the companionway.

Having run it in carefully for an initial 10 hours at around 50% revs, it's now burning less than 1 litre an hour when pushing a decent load and it's happy driving either my battery charger or my aircon unit concurrently with the fridge etc. for almost 4 hours on a single tank. Mind you - that 10 - 30W oil was really dark and shiny when I changed it the first time!

Does anyone have any views on how to / whether to ground these units out when afloat? Neither my AC nor my DC circuits have any kind of through-hull earth connection, though I have circuit breakers and RCD's everywhere. I'm not nearly as worried about frying people on the boat as I am about electrocuting anyone in the water.