Raist the Mast Fast

[Catigale]

Once it is up, indeed the bolts and nuts serve no function. Tension pushes the spreader in pretty hard

[mastreb]

I remember someone using a pin on the forestay and their mast fall cause the pin came out. Would this pin be any better? Or don't trust any pins on that?

That guy was me. Don't change the forestay pin. The Forestay and the mast foot assembly are the two most safety critical components of the boat. Just about everything else can tolerate at least some failure. This wire clasp pin is not an appropriate replacement for a ring-ding and clevis pin on the forestay.

[mastreb]

How 'bout two of those things they use to secure the quick-change pool implements to the end of the telescoping pole...

http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Cleanin ... 20771.html

I've home-made these in the past and used them for various light-duty applications.

A "V" shaped thingy with two elongated, rounded end stubs that spring out when the holes are aligned, like this one in the link, only metal parts? Nothing to lose, and the shoulders of the stubs could be undercut a bit to add security. Can't get any quicker than those, and nothing to go bouncing off the deck into the drink.

Or not.

I say do it and post! As pointed out by many, this pin is fail-safe because the spreaders are normally forced inward. The wire clasp quick pins are pretty cheap, and can also be used to keep the rudders in the up position while trailering as mentioned here, but it would be interesting to see if this works.

[mastreb]

I've put off doing this mod because I thought eventually I'd run across the pins made out of stainless. Nada - zero! Has anybody found an equivalent type in SS that would do the job? I think it would be the more compatable material when paired with the aluminum tubing.
As for the shrouds and lines when towing, I've resorted to using a million bungee cords of various lenghs to keep cables from rubbing the deck and cabin sides. Not very pretty and prone to leaving unsightly rub marks on the mast if you're not carefull.

Ross

I've never found these pins in SS, which is weird because the design is about 100 years old. By the way I just realized that the pin that holds the trailer caster wheel onto the liftjack is this same pin. They all seem to be galvanized. As Phil pointed out, they rust after about two years (mine is corroding already) and you replace them. Since they're out every trip it's an easy inspect.

I'm trying to figure out why I don't have the stays/lines rubbing problem. I don't bungee or even tie anything. I have a single shackle I put on the lower hound (that connects the baby-stays) and through that shackle I route all the lines and stays on their way down into the cabin through the hatch/door. The halyard is under tension and cleated off (before the mast comes down) with the head shackle fastened to the goose-neck. I even leave the gin pole attached, but I turn the winch until the pole is suspended in air half-way between the mast and the deck. This prevents the gin-pole from hitting anything at all.

Literally the only thing I tie down is the mast with a looped over dockline at the cockpit-forward stanchions tied in a truckers hitch to keep the mast immobile, and the mast head onto the mast carrier. I will warn that the mast bounces more with the spreaders off than it does with them on according to my admiral who was following in another car the first time we trailered w/out the spreaders on. Be certain to do a trucker's hitch over the mast somewhere amidship and tie down the mast at the mast carrier of course. I'm considering some kind of rig to lock the mast to the mast carrier since my carrier is permanently bolted on in order to eliminate the need for the truckers hitch. That might be too far in the direction of "quick rigging" but if the mast can't come of at the foot and can't come off at the head, it sure as heck isn't coming off in the middle.

Having already dropped my mast and put a slight bend in it, I've been tying this trucker's hitch against the bend to no avail. I can tell you for certain that these aluminum masts are not going to bend from laying on their sides unsupported--they won't even bend if you put them under a 100 lbs. of tension in the middle supported only at the ends for months at a time.

The stays correct the mast bend completely when the mast is up, so according to the Mike Inmon at the factory there's no reason to buy a new mast from him. Pretty cool when someone tells you what's true and not what makes him money, even when you're ready to spend. The bend in the mast still bothers me, so I'll replace it when the factory comes out with a carbon fiber model.

With the spreaders, stays, sheet-ends, and line-ends all below deck, there's no movement while trailering even at speed. I tend to run at an injudicious 65MHP while towing because I'm in SoCal and doing less that that will mean collecting a souped up Honda in your stern.

I've trailered probably about 1000 miles this way thus far and nothing comes lose.

[Catigale]

so I'll replace it when the factory comes out with a carbon fiber model.

Just hang out for the first 787 crash, then swoop in before the NTSA guys and pick up as many 40 foot shards of CF you can load onto your flatbed.

[Tomfoolery]

I'm considering some kind of rig to lock the mast to the mast carrier since my carrier is permanently bolted on in order to eliminate the need for the truckers hitch. That might be too far in the direction of "quick rigging" but if the mast can't come of at the foot and can't come off at the head, it sure as heck isn't coming off in the middle.

I don't know what the came with from the factory, but the has a pair of tangs that connect the mast crutch roller axle bolt to a bolt through the mast. It keeps that flexy cantilevered crutch from bending back, as the mast angle tends to make the roller want to roll towards the stern, and of course it keeps the mast from jumping out of the roller. I tie mine anyway, side-to-side and with a truckers hitch to cinch it down tightly, as I don't want side load into the helm any more than necessary.

You can sort of see them in this shot, angled forward up to the mast, keeping the crutch from flexing backwards. The crutch was extended up an extra foot in this shot for canal boating, so it's even more flexy than normal, although there is no trailering dynamics. My 220 lb tripping on the rigging and falling onto the mast, however, is a whole 'nother set of dynamics.

[Crikey]

I'm trying to figure out why I don't have the stays/lines rubbing problem. I don't bungee or even tie anything. I have a single shackle I put on the lower hound (that connects the baby-stays) and through that shackle I route all the lines and stays on their way down into the cabin through the hatch/door.

I tend to run at an injudicious 65MHP while towing because I'm in SoCal and doing less that that will mean collecting a souped up Honda in your stern.
.

I'd like to see a picture of your bottled up - ready for transport - rig. My comment had to do with keeping everything but the forestay attached and trying to bungee back against the mast, without inducing any severe bends in the wire. Part of the reason for my misbehaviors is this stuff is still out, and over, the cabin tops with minimal distance between in some cases. Also, even wrapping against the mast with bungees (color coded of course!) leaves additional marks each time a longer trip is taken - whether from the bungee hook itself or the SS line it's applied to.
Your solution of spreaders and stays in the cabin clearly solves this, but how do you make the entry weatherproof with so much junk coming inside?

I think the Honda problem needs a Phalanx system on the stern (I read you trained in these). NMEA 2000, of course!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm26rDlG ... re=related

Ross

[Newell]

So after all this discussion, how fast can you raise the mast? How long to lower and then trailer? I have been in these discussions several times over the last 15 years. Glad to hear that Macgregor shortened the spreaders! I know several X owners who have done it, up to 12". No dance and no problems. Dumping the furler will take many minutes off of the operation also. I don't use bungees or take things off. Tie the shrouds forward with a single line. I hate setup and take down, I like to sail.

[mastreb]

So after all this discussion, how fast can you raise the mast? How long to lower and then trailer? I have been in these discussions several times over the last 15 years. Glad to hear that Macgregor shortened the spreaders! I know several X owners who have done it, up to 12". No dance and no problems. Dumping the furler will take many minutes off of the operation also. I don't use bungees or take things off. Tie the shrouds forward with a single line. I hate setup and take down, I like to sail.

I haven't officially timed just the mast, but I can completely rig in less than 15 minutes now, with take-down taking a similar but slightly longer 20 minutes. I'm easily raising the mast in less than five minutes, but the next time I do it I'll run a clock and find out for sure. Mostly it's just a lot less effort.

[Newell]

mastreb,

This sounds great. I also dropped the use of the raising system. Takes 2 minutes to raise mast, tension at winch and pin forestay. I'm 68 yo. I have done from pull up to in water with boom attached in 20 minutes also. Usually no waiting at the ramps I use. I carry no tools and do not use pins.

[mrbillfll]

not the cheapest source but extensive..

.

http://www.apsltd.com/c-230-ClevisPinsQ ... Dings.aspx


those clips you posted from HD would rust in a month for me...

[Tomfoolery]

Just tagging along, but here are some of the problems I've come across going from transport to sailing mode and back.

The mast roller doesn't fit the mast very well, so the mast flops over on its side. It also doesn't roll very well, either, so that cantilevered crutch and the helm station it plugs into take a bit of a beating. The mast CG also goes beyond the roller, so I'm trying to hold the butt end down while I roll it back. The jib/genoa and furler make it both heavier, and I suspect, move the CG further aft, but I haven't tested that for a definitive answer.

I remove the spreaders and end caps so the stays can lay tight to the mast without the spreaders sticking out. I still need to tune that process better, but I'm getting there. Hitch pins are the next thing to try.

I'm using a bolt to hold the mast to the hinged tabernacle. I know I need a smooth pin, which BWY sells precisely for that job by the way, but haven't gotten around to it yet. It's on my list of stuff to buy over the winter. I can waste a number of minutes messing with tools, nylon lock nuts, and trying to get that pin in or out, especially when the mast butt wants to pop up.

I keep the dodger on the boat all the time, and it really gets in the way. It's a pain to put up and take down, so I've got to come up with a better way, whatever that means. It definitely slows everything down, though, in large part because it's just plain in the way. All that canvas was professionally done, and would cost a fortune to do (from scratch) today, so I somehow feel obligated to use it.

A good project for this winter would be to address the crutch roller. I'm considering making a new one from a harder material, shaped to fit the mast profile with tall flanges so the mast doesn't roll, and equip it with sealed ball bearings. To counter the mast butt trying to jump up, I'm looking at a 'hook' structure to pin or bolt to the tabernacle, also with a ball bearing roller (on the top side of the mast while it's laying down) that would prevent it from coming up, and allow me to handle it myself so I don't have to rely on my 80 YO FIL. It would probably be easier to make and use than another crutch at the stern, though I haven't explored that fully yet.

[mastreb]

You've covered my three biggest remaining pain points:

1) Roller furling Genoa remains a hassle while moving the mast from pulpit to tabernacle.
2) Mast hinge bolt & nylock is neither fast nor convenient. I hand tighten the nylock only to avoid tools, but this takes a toll on my fingers and is probably not safe.
3) Mast roller sucks.

We should put a bounty on the best solutions for 1 & 3. (2) I understand is relatively easy to solve with the BWY pin.

A nice solution to (3) would be something that also locks the mast down to the roller for trailer transit. I've thought about using a motorcycle wheel lock (large U with a bolt) but something integrated that held the mast in place while raising, lowering, and sliding but that then locked over the top for transport would be pretty ideal.

I don't know that there's ever going to be a great solution to the roller furling genoa snake.

Matt

[Retcoastie]

You guys that do that rigging in 15 minutes, is that fully ready to sail; windex installed, sails attached, all lines run or just metal in the air?

[Mac26Mpaul]

I am now into unbolting the spreaders. I went away for a week last week with the spreader bolts done up hand tight (no problems), but I'd like to find some of these 1/4 inch stainless nyloc wingnuts as they will make it a bit easier. To be honest I dont think it saves more than a minute or two by taking the spreaders off, but I know it saves the dreaded macdance, the likelyhood of bending your spreaders, and "most" of the annoying hang ups on the mast roller etc.

I havnt timed it, but I still think it takes about 45 minutes or so single handed from pulling up at the ramp, to get her sail ready. Youtube allows videos up to 15 minutes. To these guys that say setup only takes 15 minutes PLEASE make a youtube video so the rest of us can learn your technique!