Going to look at a Venture 22

[Catigale]

translation..you done good. For one thousand bucks you usually get a boat with a lot of turds attached..

[Divecoz]

Lots of post on this board about Polyglow..Good and Bad..

[Freedom77]

HI The Joe and all other Venture/Mac owners. I forgot to mention that when you lower your poptop you need to raise one corner and "burp" the air out just like tupperware. I'm just sayin'. Fair winds and full sails....Old Salt

[ixkj58]

Am looking for my first boat big enough to stay out overnight in.
Can buy locally one of two boats, about same vintage (late 70s?), about the
same shape, with equal equipment, including outboard.
The Venture 22 is 2K; the Catalina 22 is 3.5K.
Which should I buy?

[Catigale]

If you go to a major site like sailboatlistings.com you can get a feel for prices on these boats. I noticed that the Cat 22 boats priced above 3000 are all sitting 6 months or more, ergo the asking price is too high imho.

[TheJoe]

Am looking for my first boat big enough to stay out overnight in.
Can buy locally one of two boats, about same vintage (late 70s?), about the
same shape, with equal equipment, including outboard.
The Venture 22 is 2K; the Catalina 22 is 3.5K.
Which should I buy?

Buy the one that feels more comfortable to you. Both should hold those same value/prices if taken care of.
Maybe someone here can chime in on the overnighting advantages of one of the two boats.

[abruzzi]

I know this is a Mac board, but the Catalina 22 seems to have a better presence out there. Macgregor has long since moved on from there older boats to the power sailers and most Mac sites are either exclusively power sailor or at least heavily power sailer, while the Catalina 22 is still made and seems to have a very strong following. However, I don't know if that justifies $1.5k.

Geof

[Catigale]

The Venture part of this board has about 200 topics started in the past year...thats a little under one a day.

Thats pretty good imho !!!

[abruzzi]

No doubt, and I wasn't intending any offense and there are many very helpful people here. But there is a sense in the greater boating community that the older macgregors are kind of disposable (and the newer macgregors aren't real sailboats.) I'm not saying it reflects reality, but reflects the perception out there. So if you go to a more general board (at least many of the ones I've peeked into) you will deal with some anti-macgregor animus.

Also, when I was researching certain other boats, I had a easier time finding more static info. (i.e. I didn't have to pester people with a lot of newb questions.). The mac25's 6 page 'manual' isn't confidence inspiring. At one point I was looking at a Precision, and found a detailed 100 page PDF written by some expert owner to replace the factory manual.

Geof

[Sumner]

I know this is a Mac board, but the Catalina 22 seems to have a better presence out there. Macgregor has long since moved on ..... while the Catalina 22 is still made and seems to have a very strong following. Geof

First I realize you aren't trying to 'stir any pot' so the following is just some observations.

Roger was and still is successful from the stand point that he wanted/wants to keep the cost down and this has allowed him to tap into a market of many new to sailing first time buyers. To do that, except for some short periods, he has always made only one model boat at at time, as his facility was space limited. Sure in the good years he could of maybe moved to larger quarters and gone into the business of building more than one main boat at a time, but chose not to. A wise move as he is still making boats and a number of those who tried didn't make it. Catalina was successful at making more than one model at a time and and also evolving models over time so they too were doing something that worked, just different than what Roger did.

The lower initial cost of the Mac or Venture has also resulted in a lower used price down the road that has allowed some of us to afford to get into sailing with a used boat. You are seeing that in the price difference you mentioned between the Mac and the Cat. They are different boats that were designed for different markets and one just has to decide which is best for them.

We came close to buying a larger Cat when we ended up buying the Endeavour. Some of the Catalinas over 30 feet are quite cheap compared to other manufaturer's boats in those sizes. The same boards that will tell you to never buy a Mac/Venture but buy say a 22 Catalina will tell you that a 30-34 Catalina is a cheaply made boat if you are going to do some blue water sailing and stay away from them. Go figure .

I feel one should read what current and past owners are saying about a particular boat and consider how 'they' not 'someone else' will use the boat and go from there. To those who seem to know it all when it comes to choosing a boat I say "If the Mac/Ventures were such a poorly made boat how come there are sill tons of them on the water doing the same thing they did 20-30 years ago",

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

[TheJoe]

I've witnessed a lot of mac bashing on multiple forums.
I think it has much to do with cost, sure the macs are made cheaper, but half as many people would be sailing, including me, if benatuea was the only choice.
I do think some of the 26 power sailer critics are justified. But I still want one!
Some guys will spend thousands for high quality winches or roller furlers. I spent $1k for a entire working boat.
Do those people spend that much money because the performance of a winch, furler, etc. is worth it?
I kinda see it as two different kinds of people rather than two different brands of boat.

P.S. Sumner, is there anything you can't do? Spent hours on your pages, you are a wise and skilled man.

[Catigale]

No offense taken Geoff.

Cat 22 is the most popular model tht Butler ever built ... More than 12000 hulls I think? .......so there is lots out there.

I would look at the sailing and trailering aspects of b boats to make this decision. PHRF-wise, the Venture is about 30-40 points faster, IIRC.

...and don't get the blue hull....

[abruzzi]

Damn, my 25 has blue on it. Should I repaint? Are custom flame paint jobs (with skulls, preferably) frowned on in the nautical world?

Geof

[Sumner]

...I would look at the sailing and trailering aspects of b boats to make this decision. PHRF-wise, the Venture is about 30-40 points faster, IIRC......

Yep according to a PHRF listing I have with the ....slowest......fastest......and average PHRF's....

The Venture 25 is........... 228 252 237

and

The Catalina 20 is for the different models

CATALINA 22 FK............... 249 279 267
CATALINA 22 ODR............. 270 276 270
CATALINA 22 SK............... 263 279 270
CATALINA 22 WK.............. 267 285 273

but to be a little fairer

MACGREGOR 22......... 237 264 252

and

VENTURE 22-1........... 258 264 261
VENTURE 22-2........... 252 264 255

Still the Mac/Ventures beat any of the Cat 22's. Might be a nice feeling sailing by that more expensive boat. Well that is if you are a better sailor than I am,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

...P.S. Sumner, is there anything you can't do? Spent hours on your pages, you are a wise and skilled man.

Thanks for the compliment, but yes there are tons of things I can't do and the ones that I do aren't always done real well .

I've learned tons on the this site and the other Mac sites from everyone who posts.

Cat was playing on my posting name "sum" and the "difference" thing, but the real difference is the whole Mac community and the larger sailing community in general ,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links