Ballast valve open or closed during storage on land?

[mastreb]

The aft valve is not located at the ballast lowest point.

I pump out 1-2 gallons of water every autumn. If you do not pump out that water, the ballast will not dry out even if you leave the aft valve open. The water will just freeze.

You have to evacuate the water and allow for or force a draft in the ballast if you wish to keep the fiber surface dry. Leaving a single valve open will not do it. Without a draft, the water will evaporate then condense inside the ballast, but will not leave it.

Assumptions: I live in San Diego, where leaving your gate valve open will completely dry out your ballast tank and freezing is something that can only be accomplished with machines.

But that said, I can't think of any problems a small amount of frozen water in the ballast tank would cause other than to discourage critter habitation.

[Kittiwake]

Yes that's interesting isn't it Ray (NiceAft): as the unfortunate policeman observes in the movie, Clue, "There seem to be some disagreement here."
I guess this bottom line is in itself an indication that for wet ballast tanks, although one might envisage problems, history teaches us that the boat is remarkably resilient. As we all know, this MacGregor toughness (in spite of determined critic claims that, `you`ll be sorry - you get what you pay for`) has been observed for a number of Mac design features.

Doupirate I am proud that a Canadian colleague has set up such a system. But you had better hope that squirrels don`t read this web site; because if they do, they will be converging on your heated and ventilated ballast tank from all over the country.

Thanks all for your input. I think I will:
i) get a tube of silicone-based O-ring grease to smear on my rear ballast seal
ii) leave the rear ballast valve full open (along with the V-berth one)
iii) place a length of loose-weave-cloth wick from inside the rear ballast to outside, to wick out residual moisture pools
iv) firmly fasten 2 layers of window-screen over the rear ballast valve opening
v) rely on the (Roger-designed) cleverly-built-in cabin airflow openings to ensure air movement

Kittiwake

[robbarnes1965]

I already had a wasp nest in the cabin built on the cooling fins of my vhf radio so I am not down with having the valves open. I also pour in some bleach in the full ballast tank when it starts smelling funky. Works fine for me.

Rob

[Crikey]

I already had a wasp nest in the cabin built on the cooling fins of my vhf radio so I am not down with having the valves open. I also pour in some bleach in the full ballast tank when it starts smelling funky. Works fine for me.

Rob

YellowJackets! Our second national animal

[Kittiwake]

Yes, I have often wondered why wasps-building-nests-just-inside-the-cabin (given the clever auto-venting nature of the sliding roof), is not a more common issue. It would be quite exciting to open up, hop down the companionway ... and find oneself surrounded by a bunch of unexpected winged companions.
Kittiwake

[robbarnes1965]

I already had a wasp nest in the cabin built on the cooling fins of my vhf radio so I am not down with having the valves open. I also pour in some bleach in the full ballast tank when it starts smelling funky. Works fine for me.

Rob

YellowJackets! Our second national animal

These critters were actually large mud wasps. The nest was quite cool actually. But I was happy to get rid of it.

[Jamie79]

Would this be something worth worrying about looking for a used boat? I never gave it much thought, till now.

[vizwhiz]

In The winter in our northern climate . Its not a free place for chipmunks or anything else to live for the winter.. I close it.. Might well wash out if one died might not? Its closed..

Winter...winter... I remember that word... Something about cold weather, right?

Yes, I have often wondered why wasps-building-nests-just-inside-the-cabin (given the clever auto-venting nature of the sliding roof), is not a more common issue. It would be quite exciting to open up, hop down the companionway ... and find oneself surrounded by a bunch of unexpected winged companions. Kittiwake

This happens in Florida if you just stand still long enough! Thankfully, the wasp's nest-building season is over for the year down here in Central Florida, but further south, it never ends. They sell 20-ft wasp spray by the case at Home Depot.

[Crikey]

It's surprising we haven't heard from the Aussies on this posting. There'd be nothing like waking up in a Macgregor with a hand sized 'Huntsman' two inches above your face!

[NiceAft]

Kittiwake,

How are you going to achieve both iii and iv

Also, the aft vent opening is plenty wide enough to dry out the ballast. You don't need to unplug the forward vent. This has worked for me for six seasons. I do have two ports in the main cabin area which I leave open. I do that for airflow in the cabin.

Ray

[Kittiwake]

Kittiwake,

How are you going to achieve both iii and iv

Also, the aft vent opening is plenty wide enough to dry out the ballast. You don't need to unplug the forward vent. This has worked for me for six seasons. I do have two ports in the main cabin area which I leave open. I do that for airflow in the cabin.

Ray

Hello Ray (NiceAft). Thank you for this key piece of info - when it comes to anticpating problems, nothing beats observed reality. I was worried that there would be too little diffusion of air, as also suggested by Doupirate. It's all right for those rowdies like mastreb in San Diego with their warm weather: but things get pretty damp & cool up here in the winter!

In fact I wandered along to the boat today and enacted my promised 5 steps (darn nippy too). Steps iii) and iv):
iii) place a length of loose-weave-cloth wick from inside the rear ballast to outside, to wick out residual moisture pools
iv) firmly fasten 2 layers of window-screen over the rear ballast valve opening
The cloth wick does get squashed by the window-screen where the former droops out of the rear ballast exit tube, because the screen is clamped tightly around it with one of those mean plastic locking ties.

Gee, that ballast exit tube is long and narrow: you sure can't reach in to feel for a residual pool of water ... so I made sure the wick is long enough to hang well over the inside end. Doupirate, how many chamois cloths did you loose inside while drying out that sucker?!

Thanks Ray!
Kittiwake

[Catigale]

I've had paper wasps, yellow jackets, and hornets take up residence in my boat.

Hornets were the nastiest...although the yellow jacket nest got to a good 12 inches across...on the bow anchor

[Doupirate]

Kittiwake wrote:

Doupirate I am proud that a Canadian colleague has set up such a system. But you had better hope that squirrels don`t read this web site; because if they do, they will be converging on your heated and ventilated ballast tank from all over the country.

If you read carefully my first post, you will notice I wrote I leave the aft trap «crack opened», meaning 1/4 inch.

I was in BC in 1981, and the Kemano squirrels were bigger than they apparently are noweadays. Besides, the heaters fan noise starting and stopping every hour keeps the squirrels away from the boat. I leave rat poison in the cockpit and in the cabin every winter. At spring it is always intact.

I do not heat the ballast, but rather, the cabin. Winter is a very dry season in Quebec, as opposed to British Columbia where it rains all the time . By slightly heating the cabin, I take advantage of the season to dry the hull from inside, hence adding to the resale value when the surveyor will eventually test it.

Doupirate, how many chamois cloths did you loose inside while drying out that sucker?!

None. I use a steel wire from a common hanger, bend it to form an arch, roll the cham-wow around it, and secure it with a couple tie-wraps. I leave it overnight, replace it with a new dry one the day after. After a week it is completly dry. But you have to pump out most of the water first (1-2 gallons), and maintain the trailer front (bow) as high as you can, so the water gathers at the aft.

[Kittiwake]

Yo Doupirate. I have now used your patented technique for introducing a 3'-length of thick toweling in through the open rear ballast valve (ie. toweling held at one corner by coat-hanger wire so as not to be lost forever in the ballast tank) .... and leaving for a little while prior to retrieval. It did come back a tad damp on one end, but not dripping wet. The trailer is tipped pretty high at the front end. My guess is that towing it up our steep launch ramp ... and perhaps as importantly, up our steep local hills at speed, did a fair job of sloshing out most of the ballast water. Hm, and come to think of it, I had dumped the ballast at 19 mph before returning Kittiwake to the dock for retrieval this year ... which may have proven quite effective in emptying the ballast tank (I like to risk my life by pushing closed the ballast valve at speed ... albeit using one end of a pole).

So I replaced my 2 layers of window-screen and left both the V-berth and rear valves open, with a little cotton wick in the latter. I will try to remember to use the coat hanger one more time in the spring with a light dry cloth attached, to see out of curiosity how wet or dry the tank is.

Since we have very similar 26M's, our combined results may help reassure that ballast tanks can be quite thoroughly emptied without having to siphon&swab.
Kittiwake

[Doupirate]

I also empty the tank while motoring.

Nervertheless, once on the ramp, I open the valve and about five to ten gallons still pour out of the valve.

Then, at home, keeping the bow tightly secured to the trailer, I put the front jack on a 8 inches wood block and raise the trailer front until the motor gets almost on the ground. It is quite spectacular ! Taking advantage of the slope, I open the head intake valve, thus draining the intake hose so it won't crack open because of water freezing at minus 30 Farenheight, in February.

I then pump out of the ballast tank, one or two remaining gallons of water, using a syphon.

I finally perform the wiping procedure you described, using the coat hanger wire, but, I repeat it until the cloth returns completly dry. Then the tank is positively not wet, the trailer is levelled and put on blocks thus protecting the trailer bearings.

For the fiber to dry I keep both valves open, the aft one only crack open, and I force a draft circulation in the tank. I evacuate the draft out of the boat V berth using a hose tied to the flexible end of a steel funnel covering a 120 volts desk fan secured air tight with a towel.

My boat, like his owner, is «forever young»