Ugly windows

[vizwhiz]

LOL...was referring to the circular pattern used to turn the screwdriver...minor detail...




Of course I was understooding what you were saiding...

[Catigale]

Nicely struck, sir!!



Beaten to a pun.....a rarity indeed....

[kmclemore]

Nicely struck, sir!!



Beaten to a pun.....a rarity indeed....

It was late and I was tired, what can I say.

Besides, who the h*ll would call it a 'circular pattern'?

[vizwhiz]

LOL...only a smart-alec trying to make a funny...

(I'd bet you were the oldest child, weren't you...?)


Actually, all of the insight about the windows has been really good...I've been reading it with interest. Thankfully, my windows don't leak right now, so I'm not going to mess with them. But at least I have an idea of what to do if/when they start.

Speaking of windows, does anyone actually look out of their windows, or do they mostly serve just to let light into the cabin? And aren't the windows on the X/M larger than the little slits we have in the 25/26C?

[Tomfoolery]

You can seat them with GE's Silproof SCS 2000 or Dow 795 structural adhesive (the latter is what MacGregor recommends, and Boeing uses it to hold in the windows in their jets).

It's also what Hunter uses to bed the 'glass' in their boats. I spoke to their technical folks about this when I had to rebed the big 'windshield' on my H340. They warned, quite strongly, that the surfaces MUST be cleaned with a suitable cleaner (can't recall the recommendation), or the 795 won't hold the way it's designed to hold. Aside from the few little screws that hold the big lexan pieces in place while the 795 cures (takes a lot of days), the 795 is the only thing holding the lexan in place. I believe current production doesn't even use the screws any more.

It's good stuff, but it has to be installed as intended. I still have most of a case of it, but there is a shelf life, and I may be beyond that. Not that that would stop me from trying it, of course.

Oh, and silicone is VERY difficult to clean, and you can never get all of it out of the pores without mechanical abrasion. I'd avoid it for anything involving gel coat if at all possible.

[kmclemore]

(I'd bet you were the oldest child, weren't you...?)

Quite the opposite, actually.

[Jeremy K]

Older or younger, all I can say is all you guys are being good 'older brothers' to me and any others needing help here. Thanks again!

[kmclemore]

...They warned, quite strongly, that the surfaces MUST be cleaned with a suitable cleaner (can't recall the recommendation), or the 795 won't hold the way it's designed to hold.

...Oh, and silicone is VERY difficult to clean, and you can never get all of it out of the pores without mechanical abrasion. ...

Yes, I cleaned my surfaces with acetone and it worked well. However, the only solvent I know of that will absolutely remove silicone is a freon/alcohol solution, and needless to say that is a little hard to get these days (I have a bottle in my shop, but I avoid using it in all but the most extreme needs).

One note on cleaning surfaces... many of the newer roll-towels (like the blue ones you buy for a shop, for example) are actually made with stuff that *dissolves* when it hits lacquer thinner, acetone or sometimes even alcohol. The binder they use to make the towels is utter crap, and that binder glue will leech out of the towels and end up on your work, and the towel will begin to leave little bits of 'fur' all over the surface you're trying to clean. I suggest pretesting any towels to ensure they don't fall apart with your solvent before using them to clean a surface.

[Steve K]

I've read this article awhile back and was wondering, particularly about the double sided tape. Sounds like it would work great for our flush mount, plastic windows.

http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/windows.html

Any thoughts, anyone

I only want to do this one more time.
Now that I know why my windows cracked, I won't make that mistake again. However, when I installed the new windows before (several years ago), I followed instructions..... I cleaned the crap out of the mating surface on the boat. Thought I had everything right. Still....... now, I can hear the wind (when it get strong) buzzing in through the windows, in places. For a long time, I thought I had a bumble bee inside the boat But no, I thought, an insect couldn't possibly survive that long, locked up in there

Actually, if it wasn't for the loss of light in the cabin, I'd just fiberglass the windows in and be done with it. I'd paint the outside black to look like the originals. On the D, they are so tiny (much smaller than what you see on the outside, but in the picture in the earlier post, you get the idea........ you can see the actual cutout size through the pink windows. the D is similar), the only function is to just let in light.

The S/D windows are more of a problem that the X. At least they are mounted in an inset on the X. On the S/D and it looks like the 25 above, they are just stuck on the side of the cabin.

I've been thinking of a workable improvement for this design flaw (imho anyway) for some time now. If I decide to go for it, I'll share it here. It will be awhile though (home improvements aren't done yet).

Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"

[snotnosetommy]

1/4" Plexiglass isn't really very hard to work with. http://www.bcae1.com/plexi.htm

You can use a router with a guide bearing to round 'em over. A jig saw actually works pretty well to cut em. Trick is to find exactly the right blade and go the right speed. You don't have to buy a large piece of material. Mine took maybe 30 minutes each to make. Cleaning the caulk off took a lot longer.
Silicone is really pretty crappy stuff, not the best choice, but I admit it's what I had on hand, so I used it. I'm happy with the results. Lord those purple windows were awful!

My PO also siliconed the rub rail and the chain plates and the forestay. Must have put it on with a putty knife! Silicone out in the open draws dirt. Truly horrible looking. After I changed the windows and got rid of all that silicone, and polished the sheer stripe, several people actually thought I had bought a different boat!

'

[vizwhiz]

(I'd bet you were the oldest child, weren't you...?)

Quite the opposite, actually.

Hmmm...interesting.

[kmclemore]

....I only want to do this one more time...

Then I'd do it the way the factory did it... use the Dow adhesive and the process I described... it works.

[gedaggett]

That is actually a common replacement for Catalina 30's and 27's (frame delete). The problem is the PO didn't do the job right. They should have used black DOW 795 adhesive on the windows and that would have blacked out the portion that has the caulk/sealant and given it a nicely "framed" look. I am getting ready to do the same on my little V222. The other thing is having a trim ring added to the inside to pretty that up a bit too. By the way the Dow 795 is by far the best thing to use when affixing Polycarbonate or lexan to Fiberglass or wood.

[windypatrick]

1/4" Plexiglass isn't really very hard to work with. http://www.bcae1.com/plexi.htm

I wanted to follow up with a few tips as I've done a bunch of work with acrylic.

1.) Any work on acrylic goes WAY better when it is warm, if you work on it in the winter at outside temps it will be highly susceptible to cracking and part damage. Even in Arizona when I do any acrylic work (aircraft canopies) the summer is best if at all possible. Canopies are expensive pieces so a failure is really costly.. A warm or heated room and and room temp part is essential.

2.) A unibit drill (the stepped cone one) is an EXCELLENT bit for through-holes. It scrapes off a shallow bite. if you notice, there is a mild chamfer between steps on a unibit. Use that to put a mild edge break on the hole when you are done: Drill to the size you like (take your time) and then lightly touch both ends of the hole with the beginnings of the next hole size up. Voila...now your notch sensitive plastic has been stress relieved at the hole.

3.) When installing the window, the through fastener must not touch the sides of the the hole. If it does, over time movement and vibration will propagate a crack. Make your holes appropriately generous.

4.) for long straight cuts, a table saw with a fresh cross-cut blade will be fine. Make two cuts however: one roughing cut to within .075" (or a bit less than the blade thickness) of your final and then a final cut. You can be accurate to within .005" without too much difficulty if you use a caliper to set a good saw fence. Just take two cuts.

Additional straight cut method: Curiously, acrylics will 'scribe and break'. Make a deep scribing cut with a matte knife along a straight edge. Move the sheet's scribed line over a crisp edge like the end of a bench. Lay a holding piece across the top just aft of the scribed line (wood, steel angle- whatever you can find) and clamp down. get good purchase on the free end (hands, clamps...whatever), bring it down rapidly sharply and there will be a huge cracking sound and a clean edge. This is a great way for cutting plex-sheet picture frames in lieu of glass. Caveats: Eye protection, item #1 above really applies, works best on thinner plex up to 3/16...1/4" is more iffy.

Have fun!

[Steve K]

windypatrick,

Yep, #3 is exactly why my first set of replacement windows cracked. Fasteners were exactly fitting to the holes...... should've been smaller.

Thanks for the tips

SK