not long before we moved Rockhopper down south I got a phone call from the marina that during a rather nasty storm the headstay of my furler had snapped, so just under 15 cm have been taken off the top bit (just above the luff extrusion) . I am now going through the spring refit. I already have a forestay lever fitted to the bottom end of the furler so would need a slightly shorter headstay after shotening the luff anyway. My plan now is : To trim the headstay and put a turnbuckle (with toggle fitting) at the top end. The rest of the wire looks absolutely fine with no kinks or breaks. Do you think that is safe or should I just go for a completely new stay anyway , just minus the length for the forestay lever.
Thank you and best wishes from the wettest draught in history
I think I would replace it.....but more importantly.......
It looks to me that the forestay was twisting as you furled/unfurled....you need to stop this ASAP!! The new one will break quickly if this is happening.
On edit...shouldn't that thimble be double swaged too?
Catigale wrote:I think I would replace it.....but more importantly.......
It looks to me that the forestay was twisting as you furled/unfurled....you need to stop this ASAP!! The new one will break quickly if this is happening.
On edit...shouldn't that thimble be double swaged too?
Certainly nothing is twisting now as it is all in bits at home to the enjoyment of the admiral. As said, it all ripped during a storm in Scotland. Interestingly, the headstay was simply bolted onto the mast fitting through the thimble. If I understand right, from the CDI manual that I've downloaded it specifically states that there should be a toggle instead. Not sure if this was a mod by one of the prev owners or if she came like this (she was a 1994 boat show special). Luckily Rockhopper has a second forestay, so the mast was safe. Do I understand correctly that I should get a new 4 mm headstay (diameter of the previous/ripped), get a toggle on top where it is fixed onto the mast, an eye at the bottom to fit the existing toggle inside the furler ? Also, anybody ever tried swagless fittings like the QuickAttach line by Suncor ?
4mm sounds too heavy to me...You need the forestay to be tensioned to 10% of the breaking limit to stop fatigue failure, if you make it too heavy, the tension becomes too much for the other hardware on the boat
My 2002 CDI furler came the same way, no toggle, just through bolted at mast.
Catigale wrote:4mm sounds too heavy to me...You need the forestay to be tensioned to 10% of the breaking limit to stop fatigue failure, if you make it too heavy, the tension becomes too much for the other hardware on the boat
My 2002 CDI furler came the same way, no toggle, just through bolted at mast.
Thanks, Catigale, for your input. I just realized, the ripped headstay is 4mm 7x7 (I think ... looking at the pic I've posted, I am working away from home). So a 3mm 1x19 will have a similar safe working load. I do have a second forestay already in place for safety anyway. Looking through older posts on this forum regards the setup of the CDI FF2, the need for a toggle is mentioned again and again, so I think I will really go for this. So toggle fitting at the top, then 3mm diameter 1x19 wire, then eye where it connects inside the furler drum. Does that sound ok ? I am now looking at different systems for swageless/compression fittings. I like the idea of not needing any special tools. Some seem to be 100% reusable and at least on video they look very easy to use (can't be more difficult then compression plumbing fittings that I've used redoing our old house up north ) . Has anybody got experience with them ?
Hi Finally Sailing,
I have just come across your post and have an interest in Forestay failure. I have had two fail! Mine is a 2007 26M. Both Forestays were original MacGregor fitted with a FF2 furler. Both failed above the swage at the thimble. My thimble is attached to the mast hound with a shackle. After the first failure I too was concerned the FF2 manual stresses the need to use a toggle at the top. I phoned CDI and there comment was to the effect "they are required to specify the requirement in their manual for 'insurance' purposes and many CDI furlers are being used without a top toggle". I keep my M on a swinging mooring. MacGregor's comment was to ensure the rigging was kept tight. After the second failure, I'm convinced a toggle is required at the top. It makes sense if a termination can move in two directions (pitch and roll) then it should have a fitting to facilitate this movement.
With regard to forestay diameter, the original I believe is 1/8", which is not easily obtainable in the UK. 1/8" = 3.175mm. I have gone bigger with the new forestay and used 4mm. I have also replaced the shroud stays with 3.5mm. I accept the earlier comments about upgrading the standing rigging and being aware I could be moving the problem to a different part of the boat.
I hope you had a good season sailing!
Rockabill
snotnosetommy wrote:Hi, Finally Sailing,
Isn't that CDI FF2 guaranteed more or less forever?
Not sure about the warranty of the FF2. Don't think it covers the forestay. Also my boat dates back to 1994, has had many previous owners. I've seen the CDI FF2 now listed with a seven year warranty as long as you are the original owner :
Also interesting is the statement by CDI in their manual that
“This product is intended for use only on sailboats having masts fixed vertically in place at all times while the boat is in the water, wherein the mast may only be lowered in accordance with the boatmanufacturer’s instructions when the boat is on land. Any other use of the product constitutes misuse, and may result in damage to the product, and/or serious injury to the user.”
I have to do the same, mine was bolted through thimble eye (no toggle) and I found a broken strand just below the double nicopress fittings while stepping the mast. The PO's never unstepped as they kept it parked at the lake. Likely my clumsy perambulations tweaked it. I've removed the forestay from the furler.
Is the toggle assembled into the forestay or is it attached to the hounds? Recommended sources?
macr wrote:If your assembly is like mine, I would add a stainless steel washer to the feed into the top cap of your furling extrusion.
Yes mine looks exactly like yours at the top...I am confused (slow perhaps ) as to how the washer helps, could you elaborate? Also where does the toggle go?
The washer is on the cable between the top cap and the cable crimp. The cable crimp was getting snagged on the black plastic cap and may explain the location of the failure in this topic.
The washer prevents contact between the cable crimp and hole in the black cap.
I don't have a top toggle, which is why the washer helps with friction on rotation.
Mine had a washer too and I'm not sure if it was actually the cause of my broken strands there judging by the rubbing marks? So didnt replace it.
FYI - I swaged the top myself and fitted a hi-mod swageless at the bottom. I.e the swageless trermnal will fit inside the drum. Been in use and furls normally etc.
. I am now going through the spring refit. I already have a forestay lever fitted to the bottom end of the furler so would need a slightly shorter headstay after shotening the luff anyway. My plan now is : To trim the headstay and put a turnbuckle (with toggle fitting) at the top end. The rest of the wire looks absolutely fine with no kinks or breaks. Do you think that is safe or should I just go for a completely new stay anyway , just minus the length for the forestay lever.
As said, it all ripped during a storm in Scotland. Interestingly, the headstay was simply bolted onto the mast fitting through the thimble. If I understand right, from the CDI manual that I've downloaded it specifically states that there should be a toggle instead. Not sure if this was a mod by one of the prev owners or if she came like this (she was a 1994 boat show special). Luckily Rockhopper has a second forestay, so the mast was safe. Do I understand correctly that I should get a new 4 mm headstay (diameter of the previous/ripped), get a toggle on top where it is fixed onto the mast, an eye at the bottom to fit the existing toggle inside the furler ? Also, anybody ever tried swagless fittings like the QuickAttach line by Suncor ?
Is the toggle assembled into the forestay or is it attached to the hounds? Recommended sources? 
) as to how the washer helps, could you elaborate? Also where does the toggle go?