Mainsail raising issues

[Tomfoolery]

Pointed into the wind I can raise the main with one hand/arm pull. If you have slugs check make sure they are all matched.

This has been the case with every boat I've had with sail slugs. Pointed into the wind, with the main sheet loose so the boom can weathervane, the sails go up effortlessly, though big ones need a winch for the last 10 ft (50+ ft mast height above the deck). Are folks not heading directly into the wind when raising the main?

[BOAT]

Yup it's true - I won't deny it - I'm all over the deck all the time. I guess I'm just used to it - it really does not bother me at all. I totally and completely agree with all of you that doing everything from the helm is always nice and I have no argument with that one bit. But, I myself will just not use slugs.

I'm sorry, I'm weird, I know, I'm a oddball nut case or whatever you want to cal me and I accept that, but I just don't like the look of slug in my sail and I find the shape and the air leaks irritating. That's me.

I have no trouble at all getting my main up and down. Even in high wind with the wind abeam I can raise the main - I have learned tricks by necessity from sailing so many times in the Sea of Cortez where the winds get really strange. One trick I use is I raise the main in the mast by the luff FIRST, and THEN I put the clew in the boom and outhaul it into place.

There are lots of tricks like that for handling a mainsail.

[seahouse]

I ordered sail slugs (=slides) and lines led aft installed when I ordered the boat, as the bolt rope is the standard offer. The sail performance loss is real and variable, but minimal when slugs are used, but the convenience and safety gain is considerable. The more convenient it is to go sailing, the more times I will go sailing (say, after work), and the more time I will spend actually sailing, instead of preparing for sailing. It also makes things easier if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to sail single-handed, and/or from the cockpit. By my accounting method, the pivoting mast makes up for some of the performance loss from the gap the slugs create.

With sail slugs installed you can easily reef the mainsail even though the slugs are inserted into the area below the mast slot cutout (they are loosely attached at the lower part of the sail) which is what I do. It seems to me that it would be pretty inconvenient (to say the least) to reef a mainsail without sail slugs if the bolt rope were installed in the short section of the mast slot that is below the cutout.

I head into the wind when raising/lowering the main, but, depending on the conditions, don't always bother to do so with the roller furling genoa.

But then again, I can be lazy.

-Brian.

[1st Sail]

It would be interesting to know what the true performance difference is between slugs and bolt rope. If the speed difference is that significant why not double the number of slugs used. With my slugs the the bolt rope is less that 1/2in. from the mast slot (static). In high winds when I tighten the outhaul and flatten the sail the bolt rope forms a shallow arc away from the mast between the slugs. This is somewhat reduced with halyard tension. Considering the safety factory and ease of sail raising /lowering why not reduce the distance between the slugs and add more. This would improve the tendency for the bolt rope to pull away from mast. I can still drop the main under sail in moderate winds if need. One could add a down haul for safety.

[BOAT]

Not sure, but the literature in the BWY says if you do a lot of racing do NOT get slugs. My dad raced in a LOT of regattas and we won many trophies and we NEVER used slugs.

Look guys, I don't think it's a big deal, but if going on deck is something you will not do I too recommend the slugs. I was raised on a sailboat and we raced in many regattas and I was all over the deck all the time. Mike Inmon was not real happy with me when I sailed with him because I INSISTED on going up on deck all the time to look at stuff on the boat and play with things.

I was surprised by how nervous he was about me climbing all over the boat so I asked if stability was an issue and he assured me that the boat would handle me being all over the deck with no problem but it was just something he did not feel was needed because of the way it was rigged. (He has a roller on the main and I did not like it). I told him I did not like the main roller the first time I used it. I said: "I don't want that thing". He said that was fine and at the dock he challenged me to try to make the boat tip more than a few degrees and I was hanging over the water on the side hanging to a side stay and the boat did not hardly tip at all!

I think it's okay to go on deck, that's just me.

I will go out today and raise the main and take pictures of the tack so you guys can see if you like the tack tucked in.

It's not a big deal.

[drams_1999]

Then the main would occasionally snag on the port side cleat (normally used for hank on jib halyard) when started to hoist. I got rid of the cleat and then it never happened again either.

Okay, you have convinced me to do the same. I always wanted to cut that thing off. Now I will. And I bet my halyard won't get caught in it again. Why is it so long? Cut it down and it won't get caught. Bravo to you. I'm doing this.

My current configuration allows me to raise and lower the main from the cockpit.

So what is your current configuration? Sail slugs? Halyards led to cockpit?

On mine it came off by removing 2 ss screws. I don't know why but it never snagged on the starboard one so I left the starboard one on the mast.

My configuration is as follows:

sail slugs
slug gate cover
halyard led aft to clutch
downhaul tied to highest slug and led aft to clutch
adjustable topping lift so that boom weight doesnt cause friction in the slugs on the mast when raising, boom needs to be high enough when raising the main to prevent the boom weight from hanging from the sail you are trying to raise.
sawcut high bolt so that no threads stick out of the nut to catch the halyard
remove the port side cleat on the mast so that the sail doesnt snag on it when raising
I always drive directly into the wind to raise the main, unless there is light winds and in which case it doesnt seem to matter.
The downhaul is essential because if the sail does get stuck for some reason you can pull it down at least partway and try again without having to go forward.
Boom should be to able to swing as the wind or boat heading may vary while raising.
Slugs can be lubricated from time to time as well.
The last foot or so can get hard, so I put a couple of turns on the winch and carefully pull it up the last bit if needed....same with the first foot when lowering and using the downhaul.

Most of this was covered in other topics, so I take no credit.....but I don't think anyone has ever put it all in one post before. This configuration works well for me in S FL.

Good luck!!

[Russ]

Yup it's true - I won't deny it - I'm all over the deck all the time. I guess I'm just used to it - it really does not bother me at all. I totally and completely agree with all of you that doing everything from the helm is always nice and I have no argument with that one bit. But, I myself will just not use slugs.

I'm sorry, I'm weird, I know, I'm a oddball nut case or whatever you want to cal me and I accept that, but I just don't like the look of slug in my sail and I find the shape and the air leaks irritating. That's me.

Okay, I'll agree, you are weird. But whatever works for you and obviously this does.
I'm not going through all that work for a 2% max gain in performance. It's a Mac. Like putting high performance tires on a Yugo. It probably does look better, but I'm used to slugs on sailboats. I had a small Force 5 that used a bolt rope, but I raised that sail on shore before launching.
I absolutely hate being on the deck in bouncy seas. Nope, I'm never going to feed that sail up a track in those conditions. I'm going to implement Jim King's loop halyard and lazy jacks so I never have to go up there.

So, the stock Mac has no slugs. Figures, that would add $20 to the price of the boat. Maybe that's the problem the original poster is having. In some ways the rope should be easier to raise than slugs. Slugs can get hung up and jammed, whereas the bolt rope can slide easier. However the rope takes more work to guide it into the track and if the rope has flaws it could seize up in the track.



--Russ

[BOAT]

Yes, if your bolt "rope" is in good shape (no kinks) and the sail is not damaged and there are no issues in the slot AND your masthead halyard block is in the right position the sail does indeed go up very fast and smooth, but again, as you say - to keep that bolt in good condition you need to stand on the deck and feed the bolt into the slot. Yes indeed this is very true. That is how I do it.

I'm VERY particular about sail shape and I really LIKE the tight fit of a slotted main. When I race someone else is at the helm and I hold the sheets in my hands a lot for feel. In a regatta when you're racing another boat right at the line you want every last PSI you can get on the foil even if you're in a Yugo.

I will be showing a very nice system for lowering the main FROM THE HELM with a factory sail that will also roll up the main real tight and neat with no fuss in the future as soon as I modify my boom. It's an old design and I think you guys will like it. I will show it when I'm done. BUT! Even with the boom I am going to modify it will indeed still be necessary for me to go to the mast to RAISE the main.

That's just the way I do it.

[Russ]

It's interesting that I'm learning more options my dealer has done to my boat that I thought were stock.

Here's what BWY's does to the main.

MAINSAIL MODIFICATIONS

The Mainsail comes from the factory as a "bolt rope" sail with one very deep reef point, actually the second reef. You have to go up to the mast and manually feed the sail into the track on the mast every time you raise it, and every time you lower it, it dumps on the deck, or if it's windy, tries to blow off the deck into the water. With our mainsail slides, you load the slides into the mast track once when you rig the boat and then you just raise and lower the sail whenever you want, it's always attached to the mast. Our intermediate reef point (actually the missing first reef) allows you to reduce sail area in moderate wind without making the sail REALLY small. We now also are installing a cover or "gate" over the sail feed slot in the mast to allow the sail slides to go all the way down to the boom, this allows the sail to stack much smaller when lowered, it also makes reefing easier.

I don't have this gate cover. I may call them to see if it will work with my 2008 mast. Sumner fabricated a cool gate cover, but I don't have his skilz.

--Russ

[Tomfoolery]

Sumner fabricated a cool gate cover, but I don't have his skilz.

Who does?

As to the slides vs bolt rope, I use my boat, and every boat I've ever had, as a station wagon (the family Truckster ). Any loss in performance from slides, real or perceived, would be lost on me, and if it wasn't, I still wouldn't care. The main that came with my boat is original and in sad shape, and I'm lucky if I can make any headway against the wind at all, so a new main would make me happy no matter what.

I'd be a bit surprised if the skinny gap between the luff and the mast made much difference in anything other than a racing boat, as it's in the lee or windshadow of the mast, but I suppose a little turbulence in there may effect the flow across the rest of the sail.

But again, even if it did, I'll take the ability to raise and lower from the cockpit in rough water, often solo, any day.

[BOAT]

I had to up and down the mast today to instal a hound so I figured it a good time to send pictures of a stock rig (no slugs) so people with stock boats don't think they are crazy:

Okay, I got the mast hound on:



And I raised the mast using that gizmo to keep the furler off the deck like that nice skipper suggested on this site:



I stepped the mast with this coin (very important):

[BOAT]

And got my PROPERLY FOLDED main in its sail bag out (the head should always stick out of the bag):



When you lay it out on the deck and unfold it it looks like this:



Then I slide the bolt into the mast slot and fly the sail! :

[BOAT]

See, the bottom fly’s free – it goes up REAL EASY and the boom is not even attached yet so it’s easy to take the slack tack and tuck it into the lower slot:



Now I just lift the front of the boom (the rear is supported by the topping lift) and slide in the clew:



Cinch the outhaul and tighten up the main halyard and you’re done. Here is a nice air tight sail with the tack tucked in:

[BOAT]

Here it is with the tack NOT tucked in – which do you prefer?



The whole thing comes down fast and easy in a mess:



That’s why I prefer to fly it by just the head so I can fold it in half and roll it up from the bottom. It then goes back into the bag nice and neat with the head sticking out:

[RobertB]

OK, I am a sail slug guy, I admit it. But really, what the heck is a coin used for in stepping the mast