Insurance

[Russ]

My experience Superstorm Sandy and dealing the the damage to my dad's boat is that State Farm sucks. Hate to bash a company, but it took them 4 months to write us a check. Even with that, they expected us to email them photos and get estimates. That is THEIR job.

My Mac is insured with BoatUS. The January issue of their magazine featured superstorm Sandy and interviewed Gordon Nelson, the marina owner where my dad's boat was. BoatUS was ONSITE writing checks on the spot. So I spoke with Gordon and he said SF was awful. He was very impressed with BoatUS and I think he said Progressive also.

So, ask yourself, why do I have insurance? To save money or in case I have a claim?
There is that old saying, "You get what you pay for."

[Russ]

And read the fine print. Setting replacement value to $40k doesn't mean they'll write you a check for $40k if it's totaled.

My dad's Hunter had a lot of damage ($24k) and it's replacement value was $35k and they were going to total it. Read the fine print and don't overpay for what you will never get back.

[BOAT]

I have no where near 40k in 'boat' - that is just the total payout liability for the insurance company. They will replace everything brand new up to 40 thousand dollars. Full replacement is garanteed, but not over 40 grand. THis is a ver common limitation and one that many get wrong (thus the reason they don't get actual NEW replacement). Without the value statement and cap your only going to get the value of a used boat.

UNDER insuring is the way people go cheap and screw up thier insurance coverage. The difference between 150 and 200 dollars is not always the catasrophic coverage - that is why I have such a high deductable. When you have a high deductable your pretty much telling the insurance company that you are going to be responsible for 90% of all repairs and your just asking them to cover the catastophic events - the acuarial tables for that kind of loss are astronomicly rare for my area and that is why the insurance is cheap, not because thier liability is any lower than the stated amount. Usualy big companis take these kinds of policies because they require no administration and rarly cost the company a dime. Smaller companys with better service will charge more because they expect to help you with a few losses and minor accidents over the life of the policy. I am not buying insurance to cover dings and scratches or the theft of a radio.

My family owned a causulty insurance company for 60 years.

[Hamin' X]

Boat US

Boat & Boating Equipment : $27,000.00
Investigative Services : 5% of the above
*Boat & Boating Equipment Deductible : $127.00
Boating Liability per Accident : $100,000.00
Fuel Spill Liability : $854,400.00
Boat Trailer : $1700.00
Boat Trailer Deductible : $50.00
Uninsured Boater per Accident: $100,000.00
Medical Payments per person : $1,000.00
Personal Effects per Accident : $1000.00
Freeze State - Ice and Freezing Endorsement - Yes
Current Annual Premium : $228.00

[BOAT]

This brings up a very good subject, (I can already hear the voice of my dead dad preaching.) Insurance is to protect YOU, not to protect others. Liability insurance is great but bottom line - if you kill someone with your boat the odds of the victims family taking the measly 300 thousand per event and walking away are just not gonna happen.

They are gonna SUE YOU for millions.

The best Cadillac policy will rarely cover more than 300 grand per incident so you will be left paying the rest when sued. That is why I only go catastrophic coverage to protect replacing a total loss and some good personal medical coverage but for medical liability you are wasting your money because the policy limits will rarely cover what you will end up owing if you're found at fault. Set your liability for realistic property damage limits and that's it. Medical, it will never be enough anyways.

See, if another boat HITS your boat, they pay for the minor damage, so my high deductible does not matter. If YOU hit ANOTHER boat your liability coverage will fix that other boat.

But if you injure or KILL someone, all bets are off - they can sue you for MILLIONS - the policy will leave you high and dry.

Same goes for your home or car. You need something ELSE if you're going to be smart about buying insurance:

An UMBRELLA Policy.

A multi-million dollar umbrella policy is a rider that you should have on your own personal liability that covers EVERYTHING. Then you can get property insurance for your toys that makes sense.

[Russ]

An UMBRELLA Policy.

Yep. An umbrella policy is probably the cheapest insurance you can purchase to protect yourself. Typical insurance maximums are not adequate in today's legal environment. A $2million policy isn't that expensive and protects everything in your life, boat, car, house, whatever someone decides to sue you for.
Most people have homes worth more than their insurance coverage. Why risk having a lawsuit that takes your home? Sage advice in my opinion to buy an umbrella policy.

But for my boat, I'm not using the same company that insures my house. I advise going with a company that knows boats. My experience with State Farm has been painful.

--Russ

[BOAT]

Even Geico (the lizard) does not use their auto casualty company - the actual carrier on my declaration is 'Seaworthy Insurance Company' which is the underwriter for Berkshire Hathaway. Berkshire Hathaway will offer set policies at a discount to large companies (like the lizard) who resell the policy. If you’re a total loss the casualty company will pay to the insured limits (in my case, 'Geico', but if you have a CLAIM - you must go to the underwriter (Seaworthy) because the Lizard people have no experience with watercraft claims.

Allstate, Progressive, and Farmers usually contract to small companies (like my dad), that are equipped to handle small claims involving watercraft and have experience with maritime law and salvage investigation. Those are all things the car insurance carriers don't have on staff, so it's cheaper to contract out the actual claim service. Most the good carriers are on the east coast (Virginia, Nantucket, Mass. Carolinas, - You know - all those old maritime places). That's where maritime law lives in the US.

Sometimes the CLAIMS SERVICE cost of a policy is more expensive to handle than TOTAL LOSS!! Claims are the most labor intensive part of the insurance business and whenever lawyers are involved in ANYTHING it gets crazy expensive. The lizard is actually saving himself millions by allowing the smaller underwriter take care of the claims process, (and giving them most of the payment), in exchange for being the liability underwriter with the deep pockets on the total loss.

My dad said State Farm was the worst of the worst because they try to handle all their claims and have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to certain types of property law. (It's because they are very old company). They are good at homes and real estate law but that's it.

My home carrier is real good with earthquakes and flood and mold, termite, fire - ect . . . and they do cover the boat as an extention of our drivway but I would never give them my boat liability.

[Hamin' X]

You might want to check with your marina if you have a slip (I do). The marina will likely require a certain minimum liability coverage (mine does). I also have a separate umbrella policy. To each their own, I guess.

~Rich

[dlandersson]

That's a good point. Mine does also. Insurance companies are famous for excluding an incident is all the i's aren't dotted and t's crossed.

You might want to check with your marina if you have a slip (I do). The marina will likely require a certain minimum liability coverage (mine does). I also have a separate umbrella policy. To each their own, I guess.

~Rich

[Russ]

Our boats tend to be a big investment in our lives. Doesn't make sense to cheap out on insurance. Regardless of what is required, we should make the effort to research carriers.

--Russ

[DaveB]

Hamin, I had a good Policy thru Progressive but they doubled the price and have received quote thru Boat US about same price you quoted for SW Florida.
I haven't seen a better offer thru my research.
For $225 is a good deal, now I have full unlimited tow thru them at $125 a year.
Boat US will also do just a liability coverage and for a Mil. protection and those who only want liability this may be a inexpensive way out.
I perfer the $225 full coverage as they can sue me for what? Higher the coverage more Lawyers seek and except clients.
It's the non insured boaters I am concerned with and around here 80 % are non insured on small boats, those financed have to be.
Dave

Boat US

Boat & Boating Equipment : $27,000.00
Investigative Services : 5% of the above
*Boat & Boating Equipment Deductible : $127.00
Boating Liability per Accident : $100,000.00
Fuel Spill Liability : $854,400.00
Boat Trailer : $1700.00
Boat Trailer Deductible : $50.00
Uninsured Boater per Accident: $100,000.00
Medical Payments per person : $1,000.00
Personal Effects per Accident : $1000.00
Freeze State - Ice and Freezing Endorsement - Yes
Current Annual Premium : $228.00

[Russ]

Boat US will also do just a liability coverage and for a Mil. protection and those who only want liability this may be a inexpensive way out.
I perfer the $225 full coverage as they can sue me for what? Higher the coverage more Lawyers seek and except clients.

Some states don't allow the laywers to find out what your coverage is. Some, it's part of discovery.
Either way, in an injury suit, they start at $1mil and see what they can get from the jury. This is the way of our legal system now.
Therefore, $1 million of liability insurance, either from your primary or umbrella plan is smart.

When the jury awards the plaintiff $500k and your carrier limit is $100k, guess what they go after for the other $400k? Your house, your car, garnish your wages. Not worth $150/year for $2 million of peace of mine.

The boat, it's worth under $35k, if it sinks to the bottom, that's all I'm out. My house and future isn't worth cheaping out on liability coverage IMO.

--Russ