Are surge brakes really worth the trouble and maintenance??

[TrueNorth]

Friends,

Are surge brakes really worth the trouble and maintenance??

I have a 13 yr. old super rusty 26X trailer with zero maintenance, rust in the master cylinder, a hose leak, nonworking rusty surge brakes, but bearings in fair shape.

I saw elsewhere on this towing forum a comment once that surge brakes just aren't needed for such a light boat (relatively speaking).

Should I just deal with bearings and call it good? Or should I get new backing plates and brake units and fix up the master cylinder and get the things working?

Greatly appreciate your thoughts and reasoning here. Thanks,

In a quandary in Alaska.

[Ormonddude]

A lot of that depends on your tow vehicle if when pulling the boat more than doubles your stopping distance you need the surge brakes if when pulling it just adds about a third you don't However you must drive accordingly and if your not experienced pulling trailers Again I would say get the brakes and forget everything else I said. No trailer brakes you MUST Maintain stopping distance no matter if someone cuts you off or changes lanes to close - slow down and increase your distance immediately. The rule of thumb is two car lengths per 10 miles per hour of speed as compared to the 1 car length per 10 w/o a trailer. If your tired increase it even a little more. The Most Dangerous Time here in Florida to pull a trailer is a drizzle after a drought this is just enough water to loosen Exhaust oil and not clean the road like a heavier rain. We call it Black Ice and I have experienced near Zero traction while trying to stop. (yes I realize Black Ice is also a Northern term for a different problem) here is a well written explanation I found on another site. " As a lifelong Floridian, I can tell you that we also have something referred to as "black ice" in the vernacular. Florida black ice is not ice at all, but I imagine it is a phenomenon that occurs in any exceptionally warm climate. In the summer time, when temperatures average in the high 90's, tires on pavement leave a thin coating which, when mixed with oil etc. builds up over time. Normally, our summertime afternoon rain showers clean it off, but in the first few minutes of a rainshower following a dry spell, the roadways become extremely slick and perilous, but only until the rain washes the slick coating off. I know it is not the same thing, but if you ever hear a Southerner talking about "black ice" you will know what they mean. "

[Catigale]

If you have a 10,000 pound rated tow beast, not needed.

Otherwise, needed.

Ditch the drums and go to disc brakes.

Am I correct that trailer speed limit in AK is 45 mph?

[Tomfoolery]

If the master cylinder is rusty inside, you can bet the brake lines are shot, too. The shoes and slave cylinders are obviously shot. There's not much left that's good, in other words.

I was in your situation when I got my , and to make matters worse, I have two axles. So I cut the whole mess off, including the coupler, and put a disc brake kit on it, though only on one axle. I figured it was enough since the trailer was designed for only one axle, and so far, I haven't noticed any skidding when stopping hard (doing the Mac bump, mainly).

I used this kit https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes ... 43100.html, which has everything you need (though some hoses were wrong, but it didn't matter), and I cut the coupler welds off and bolted the new one on. I could have gutted the coupler, since it's the same as the new one, but bolting it on allows easier service years down the road, so that's what I did.

There are other brands with similar kits, and you can also get stainless steel discs and (I think) calipers. I only go in fresh water, so it's not something I gave a second thought to.

Be advised also that drum brake master cylinders have a check valve with low pressure bypass relief to maintain a minimum pressure in the slave cylinders. Disc brakes do not, but the coupler does come with an electric reverse lockout solenoid, and most couplers also have a place to put a pin to disable the braking. Disc brakes work as well backwards as forwards, so they need a lock-out of some sort, unlike drum brakes of which there are two versions - free-backing (essentially no resistance in reverse when the coupler is compressed), and single-servo (some resistance, but far from full braking).

As to whether or not to have brakes, that depends on the tow vehicle, as already stated, but I'd rather have brakes in every case, thank you. They're not for when everything is fine - they're for when everything turns to crap! And when things have turned to crap is NOT the time to start thinking you should have spent a few boat bucks on brakes - THIS is the time to think about it.

[Boblee]

I have towed our boat thousands of k's without brakes but only because either I didn't know they weren't working or it just wasn't convenient to fix at the time, besides at the speeds I tow the vehicle could do the job easily.
As of today though we have just registered the new trailer that has disc brakes on all four wheels and they are galvanised with stainless pistons, I could have used drum brakes probably two thousand dollars cheaper but don't like electic brakes and we have rules that say the brakes on trailers rated over 2 tonnes must be electrically activated with a breakaway system.
The problem is not whether they work although that is certainly a concern but whether you will be liable after an accident, your fault or not.

[Russ]

They day that elk pops out in front of you on the road, the thought in your mind will be "I'm glad I added those surge brakes."

--Russ

[TrueNorth]

Friends,

Your comments are hugely helpful. No special speed limit on trailer in AK. Since I am towing with a little Nissan Frontier Pickup, 6 cy. you have convinced me entirely to get my surge brakes working. Pretty much a total system replacement.

Boat lives in the harbor for six months. We make just one trip a year to Prince William Sound.... seem hard to justify disc brakes.... but then again PWS is two Mt. passes and four hours away!

Again, very helpful comments.

[Tomfoolery]

. . . seems hard to justify disc brakes.... but then again PWS is two Mt. passes and four hours away!

Assuming the drums are shot, as well as the brake shoes and hydraulics, and the coupler guts, you're looking at over $100 for a pair of drums with new bearings, over $100 for a pair of shoe and backing plate assemblies (with hydraulics), and another $150 or so for the coupler, though you might save a little buying just the parts you need. And that doesn't include new brake lines. That's $350+ for drum brakes, or another $90 for the same parts but with disc brakes.

A long down hill run with the brakes dragging and bearing grease boiling out and spitting all over your boat might convince you that you should have gone with disc. Not that I would know anything about that, of course.

[Boblee]

You are lucky to be able to use surge brakes, we can't over 2 tonne, as for drums I considered them but after being told the expected life on a boat trailer was less than 2 years why not put on a gal system?
Must say the discs on all four wheels works extremely well but the delays on releasing with the electric actuator might take some getting used to.

[yukonbob]

We loose 3500 ft in 12 miles on our way down to the habour and the brakes are nice. They've got their work cut out for them each year!

[Tomfoolery]

Wow. That's a lot of altitude lost. It's also where electric over hydraulic really shines, as they're controlled wiht a standard electric controller, so you can use a lower gear and not use the trailer brakes, or limit their use as you see fit. But they're awfully expensive.

[Steve K]

Had them on my 26X trailer.
Don't have them on my 26D trailer. (but will next year)

I miss them. The 26D is lighter overall than the X, but I would still like to have them.
If for nothing else, I can already tell that my 2007 GMC 1500 will need brake jobs more often than it used to.
I'd rather have the trailer brakes take some of the wear, than having to do brakes on my truck more often than usual.

Another thing that I like about trailer brakes is that panic stops are very controlled. The trailer doesn't try to fish-tale, or push up or lift the back of the truck, when it has brakes.

So, in short, no matter how light the trailer or how heavy the tow vehicle, trailer brakes are an asset IMHO.

I now have an axle (3500 lb) that I can add brakes to (26D trailer axle doesn't even have backing plate flanges and is only rated @ 2700lbs). I'll, likely, buy a disk brake kit, since the brakes on said axle are shot. Replacing with disk won't cost much more than replacing the drum brakes (need new actuator, drums, brake lines, shoes, backing plates, wheel cylinders.... the whole schemer).

Anyway, like I said... JMHO

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[island808]

Even some pop up campers have trailer brakes. Brakes are a must, and the law here. Don't think a 1500 pickup won't jack knife with a couple thousand pounds of inertia plowing into the back of it. Especially when your weight is thrown forward and on the wet.

In a panic stop, even surge brakes can fail to stop properly.
I prefer electric brakes, but I guess that's not boat trailer friendly or trailer dealers don't want to scare people away with brake controllers. Electric brakes, if it starts swaying, just crank up the brakes a touch and get it under control.

Brakes dramatically improve safety and ease of use.

[mastreb]

So I'm 4000 miles into a 6000 mile towing trip with the stock upgraded trailer which has the stainless disc surge brakes.

We've had about four instances of the trailer brakes engaging in traffic thus far. My tow beast is rated for 7500 lbs. and has "Trailer stability assist" which individually brakes the trucks wheels to stop any sway on the trailer. It works really well--towing is rock solid.

Without the brakes on the trailer, we would have jackknifed in one of those four instances. Even with the trailer brakes locked-up, I could feel the trailer pushing the car and the trucks brakes doing their "trailer compensation braking thing" that it does. Even with all that assistance, The rear of the truck was pushed out and I had to countersteer to compensate.

So what's the value of not jackknifing on the freeway once? I'd say totally worth it.

[Tomfoolery]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This, rat cheer! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (what mastreb said)

Everything is everything right up until it all turns to crap. By then it's too late to start thinking you should have had brakes on the trailer.