Genoa 150%...where should the cam cleats go?

[davesisk]

Hey guys...so, got some decent sailing in Sun, there was actually a little wind on the local lake.

I've realized though that the rigging isn't really set up for a 150% genoa...looks like it's all positioned for a normal jib. I *think* the best location for cam cleats, winches, rollers, etc., would be on the sides of the cockpit (looks like). For those of you with a 150% genoa, where is the normal location for these items?

There are sliding tracks on both sides of the cabin top (looks like where the old jib lines must have been routed), and there are also slides on the sides of the cockpit. I can't remember if the slides are the same size or not...I'm hoping they are...if so, I can probably move at least the rollers to the sides of the cockpit easily. Are there cam cleats or lewmar winches that will mount on the slides? (Or is that subjecting the slides to too much force? I've got two new cam cleats, I just don't want to start drilling unless it's truly necessary, plus being able to adjust their position on the slide rail seems like a good thing.)

Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated!

Dave

[BOAT]

The stock Genoa sheets on the M boat run outside all shrouds through spring blocks mounted on tracks on each side of the cockpit, up to the winch on the cabin and back to the cam cleat adjacent to the winch.

I would assume an X boat would work the same way (?)

[Tomfoolery]

I would assume an X boat would work the same way (?)

[Ed McMahon voice]

You are correct, sir!

[/EMv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY6wwAhvirY

They're standard 1" tracks, 2 ft long (should be 4 ft, IMO), same as the cabin roof and will take the jib fairleads, but the stand-up genoa fairleads are more appropriate for the genoa. No need for another winch, as you can use the cabin roof winches. While dedicated winches are nice, these boats are too small, and don't really have a good place to put them without getting in the way, if you could even reach up in there to mount them (backing plate and hardware).

There are fairleads with cam cleats available for this, but I don't recall who makes them or what they're called. Someone here will though, as they're rather popular.

[davesisk]

Could someone post a pic of the "springblock" so I know what I'm looking for?

Cheers,
Dave

[THE CUSCUS]

This is a V25, but you can get the idea.

[Tomfoolery]

Blue Water Yachts p/n 4302-1V0.

[hschumac]

Highlander posted the Garhauer swivel cam cleats here, I have the same ones mounted on the cockpit tracks and they work great: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =8&t=17938

You can just manage the sheets from the helm without having the move forward to the cabin top.

[BOAT]

I have the cleats that mount on the track too - but I must admit - in a brisk wind trimmed well it can get pretty hard to pull in the Genoa - gloves recommended if the wind is stronger than 18 MPH

[Wind Chime]

by BOAT » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:41 pm
I have the cleats that mount on the track too - but I must admit - in a brisk wind trimmed well it can get pretty hard to pull in the Genoa - gloves recommended if the wind is stronger than 18 MPH

We have the fair lead with cam cleats on the cockpit t-track as well, they are very convenient for me when single handing but I agree they can be hard to sheet-in under load. When I need to sheet-in the genoa, I head up a bit to take the load of the sail, then harden the sheet, and then bare away again. You lose performance, especially if on a beam reach, but for me the ease of the task makes up for it.

[BOAT]

Yup, actually I'm almost tempted to put another set of winches on the rear of the boat.

[Crikey]

Ditto! And also because I want to free up that space for a dual set of cockpit cams for 'led-back' lines. The stock winches are pretty bad anyway.

R.

[davesisk]

Ah, OK...got it. I just went and looked (home now), and the tracks are the same size, so I can move the pulleys (are these it called a fairleads?) from the tracks on the cabin top to the tracks at the cockpit, then route the jib halyards forward to the lewmar winches and cam cleats on the cabin top. The camcleats on the cabin top are worn and not holding very well, but looks like those should be pretty easy to replace since there are covered access holes inside the cabin.

So, are there any sort of winches that will mount to those cockpit tracks? It sure does seem like it would be much easier to have the winches and cam cleats at the cockpit within easy reach. Or, what about the winches that have a slot to hold the halyard? Wouldn't that eliminate the need for cam cleats? Any of those that would mount to the tracks? (Probably asking too much, eh? )

Thanks guys! I am learning a lot from you folks!

Dave

[davesisk]

Ah, so a winch that holds the halyard in a grooved slot is called a "self-tailing winch". Man...those things aren't cheap, are they? What size are our winches?

I assume our stock winches are single-speed...how does a 2-speed winch work? I'd guess you turn it one direction for one speed, and the other direction for a different speed?

Looks like Barton makes a "Wincher" that turns our non-cleating winches into cleating winches. I wonder how well this works?

http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-wi ... nchers.asp

Cheers,
Dave

[Crikey]

Ah, so a winch that holds the halyard in a grooved slot is called a "self-tailing winch". Man...those things aren't cheap, are they? What size are our winches?

I assume our stock winches are single-speed...how does a 2-speed winch work? I'd guess you turn it one direction for one speed, and the other direction for a different speed?

Cheers,
Dave

No Dave, it's like our stock winches - you lean on it 'cause it's frozen from last year, then, all of a sudden it let's go!
That's the two speed part!

R.

[BOAT]

Something that just holds the line with a wedge shape is called a jam cleat. If it has little flippers it's a cam cleat. If it has a pully it's called a block. If it's just an eye with no pully, that's a fairlead.

The BLOCK for the genoa is always mounted on the track.

So, a winch can't mount on a track, (or it should never BE mounted on a track) so your options for cleating the Genoa are THROUGH A BLOCK FIRST, then up and around the cabin winch and into the cam cleat on top of the cabin.

OR:

THROUGH THE BLOCK FIRST, then back to a cam cleat mounted on a car (in the track)

OR

THROUGH THE BLOCK FIRST, then back to a cam cleat mounted on a car, and then around a winch aft of the track.

OR, if running (running - that's going downwind) in really light winds, you can do what I do - don't run the genoa sheet thru ANYTHING, just hold it in your hand.

(Yes, I have burns on my hands) I just never cared much for whisker poles.