Secure Rotating Mast

[Ryan B]

I did my first overnight trip in my 26M this last weekend. At anchor, in moderate winds, the mast kept slamming from side to side creating tremendous racket throughout the night. I tried securing the boom to the port deck with the mainsheet, but it did not help much. Any solutions to secure the mast from rotating in that situation?

Thanks

[yukonbob]

Never really had this problem. If this is the case then I'd tie the goose neck to one of the stanchions. Might also be the DB was down and not the mast? as that is a common noise problem. Might be the shrouds are to loose? Most people have a hard time getting the mast to rotate with full sail out after tacking or gybing. Just some thoughts

[cptron]

I agree with bob, my mast had a hard time rotating until I lubed it.
Some people on here say to leave the dagger down to help minimize swinging while on the hook. I have all but solved this problem by putting a wind scoop up for the front hatch. discovered accidently that it minimized swing.

[Crikey]

You either overnighted at anchor in some significant swells, for the mast to move that loudly or as already stated, most of the noise was coming from the dagger-board trunk. The solution to that is to either fully lower or raise the dagger-board. Every boat with such a movable item also 'talks' this way. If it was the rotating mast you could put a line to the base - where the vang attaches - running on either side to a stanchion.

R.

[Russ]

Great points above.

You can tie it off with the little hole in the back of the base of the mast. Most people use it to force the mast to rotate.

[BOAT]

Great points above.

You can tie it off with the little hole in the back of the base of the mast. Most people use it to force the mast to rotate.

Oh yeah, that's right - that little hole thing that is for the boom vang, (I don't use a boom vang) but then, I did put a ball bearing bushing under my mast so it does indeed rotate pretty easy. If it was slamming back and forth because of swells I suppose I could use the little hole to pull the mast straight. Generally I anchor against the swell so it's more of an up and down motion than a side to side (Unless there is a lot of wind) then it's like water skiing behind a boat in the slalom course.

Why do the boats go back and forth like that on anchor in heavy wind??? What's up with that? Sometimes I think it's better to anchor from the stern than the bow!

[Crikey]

Great points above.
You can tie it off with the little hole in the back of the base of the mast. Most people use it to force the mast to rotate.

Oh yeah, that's right - that little hole thing that is for the boom vang, (I don't use a boom vang) but then, I did put a ball bearing bushing under my mast so it does indeed rotate pretty easy. If it was slamming back and forth because of swells I suppose I could use the little hole to pull the mast straight. Generally I anchor against the swell so it's more of an up and down motion than a side to side (Unless there is a lot of wind) then it's like water skiing behind a boat in the slalom course.
Why do the boats go back and forth like that on anchor in heavy wind??? What's up with that? Sometimes I think it's better to anchor from the stern than the bow!

OK.... explain the lack of the vang thing, in your particular case? You have far more sailing experience than many of us (read me - in particular) and I can't personally imagine operating without one. And also, thanks to Mastrebs insightfulness, I've just completed my first seasonal shift with a Boomkicker and wouldn't trade it for the world! It's an and the only use I can see for a topping lift is to fly one of Highlanders flags.

Ross
(BTW ..... at some point it would be nice to learn your real name?)

[Russ]

OK.... explain the lack of the vang thing, in your particular case? You have far more sailing experience than many of us (read me - in particular) and I can't personally imagine operating without one. And also, thanks to Mastrebs insightfulness, I've just completed my first seasonal shift with a Boomkicker and wouldn't trade it for the world! It's an and the only use I can see for a topping lift is to fly one of Highlanders flags.

I don't have a boom vang either. I've been sailing for 40 years, some boats with 'em some (like the Mac) without.
Frankly, it's not a necessity. Major benefit is running down wind when the wind wants to lift the boom up. Close hauled, it does very little, especially if you know how to use the traveler. If I were a performance sailor, I'd insist on it, but the Mac is what it is and a vang isn't going to help me that much.

As for the boomkicker, it's a cute invention and for some people it works very well. Doubles as a vang and a topping lift. Very clever idea.
For me, my simple topping lift works a treat. Mine has 2 clips, one low for sailing that allows the boom to drop down and sail to lay flat and one up high when not under sail that keeps the dang boom from hitting me in the head. All for the cost of 30' of line and 2 hooks.
What I can't understand is those who have neither the boomkicker nor a topping lift. How do you just let the boom drop on the deck and get in your way? It would look also funny with a sail cover and laying on the deck.

--Russ

[Crikey]

Russ, you hit that nail squarely ... though at somewhat of an angle.
The Vang came with my boat as standard equipment when delivered. I couldn't conceive there was any other option considering the basic hardware connection engineering is in place. To my mind its only purpose is to control the proper 'bellying' of the sail when on a run or broad reach. In those cases the main boom lines purpose is to angle the boom laterally, or to pull down and flatten the mainsail.
The kicker totally removed the 'relocate the topping lift (mainsail uphaul)' dance when you lowered the mainsail and everything flopped on the Bimini ( rather awkwardly usually). It's other benefit is supposed to be providing some uplift in very light airs, but staying put in the cockpit also works for me when I get around to single handing. I'm not going to mention sail chafing - chafing.
Ross

[mastreb]

Unshackle the vang from the boom bail and shackle it to a stanchion base. harden up and cleat-off--done.

[BOAT]

Okay it's HANSEN (Viking) And my decedents have been here on the coast in California for a LONG long time making a living from the ocean (cept Dad, he moved to OK) - so let's just leave it at that. I prefer 'boat' or "Hey You!

Let's pretend the red line is the traveler and sheet:



Figure one above is close hauled: your trying to really just keep the main away from the genoa because you need the genoa hauled in pretty tight - since 'boat' is a fractional rig my genny does not go all the way up, so this configuration allows my main to catch air up high while the genny catches the air down low - not a good configuration for heavy wind because it will knock you down (too much action at the top of the mast) but in LIGHT WINDS I use this shape to kick ass on boats twice my size and point higher than they think I can.

Figure two: the wind is getting strong this is the classic sloop configuration for most utility.
Figure three: This can only be done with a vang OR with a traveling main sheet block - either is effective and it a good pointer for winds above 15 knots
Figure four: can produce surprising speed between a close and beam reach but it only works if you can get the genny clew way out over the water so the genny is pulling HARD at the bottom.
The last picture is a main getting in the way of the genny, and this is the only instance I can think of on the MAC where a vang is needed except when running.

I would have a vang on 'boat' for running but I really can't get the main out far enough before it runs into the spreaders anyway so I have not bothered. If my main was billowing bad on a run I probably would add the vang, but it's just not been an issue.

I have been very pleased with the performance of 'boat' so far I guess because I had such low expectations coming in.

As for slapping masts at anchor - I guess I'm used to it; sleep like a baby - to me the slapping of the halyards is comforting and reminds me that I am in a different world and I don't need to think about all my problems I left back on land. Been that way since i was a kid.

[Crikey]

Okay it's HANSEN (Viking) And my decedents have been here on the coast in California for a LONG long time making a living from the ocean (cept Dad, he moved to OK) - so let's just leave it at that. I prefer 'boat' or "Hey You!
Let's pretend the red line is the traveler and sheet:

Figure one above is close hauled: your trying to really just keep the main away from the genoa because you need the genoa hauled in pretty tight - since 'boat' is a fractional rig my genny does not go all the way up, so this configuration allows my main to catch air up high while the genny catches the air down low - not a good configuration for heavy wind because it will knock you down (too much action at the top of the mast) but in LIGHT WINDS I use this shape to kick ass on boats twice my size and point higher than they think I can.
Figure two: the wind is getting strong this is the classic sloop configuration for most utility.
Figure three: This can only be done with a vang OR with a traveling main sheet block - either is effective and it a good pointer for winds above 15 knots
Figure four: can produce surprising speed between a close and beam reach but it only works if you can get the genny clew way out over the water so the genny is pulling HARD at the bottom.
The last picture is a main getting in the way of the genny, and this is the only instance I can think of on the MAC where a vang is needed except when running.
I would have a vang on 'boat' for running but I really can't get the main out far enough before it runs into the spreaders anyway so I have not bothered. If my main was billowing bad on a run I probably would add the vang, but it's just not been an issue.
I have been very pleased with the performance of 'boat' so far I guess because I had such low expectations coming in.
As for slapping masts at anchor - I guess I'm used to it; sleep like a baby - to me the slapping of the halyards is comforting and reminds me that I am in a different world and I don't need to think about all my problems I left back on land. Been that way since i was a kid.

See.... I knew I could suck you into spillin some of that great knowledge you so obviously possess. Excellent!
Before I forget, why don't you plan a Mastreb type trip up here to next year's MMOR get together. We have an excellent 'crossing the line' 'Hat' ceremony and I'd be the first one to pay you for some tutoring while drinking Highlanders Scotch!
Some of what you say would be applicable to the particular cut of the mainsail, and not necessarily in line with the Standard Doyle MacGregor unit. Muscle head perhaps? Still excellent!
My sisters kids (nephews) are HANSSENS - not vikings but Dutchies. But if you want me to call you Leif... that's ok too.
Ross

[BOAT]

I remember a deal for crossing the Equator and you get an ear ring for The Horn but there is no ceremony for the East Coast! That sounds fishy to me! Your trying to trick me.

Yes, muscle heads are possible with the stock rig cuz of the traveler - here it is in action:



http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/boat2 ... 3.mp4.html

Like i said - for light winds it goes pretty fast - there are "Muscle Head" sails you can get with extra battens and cloth up there but on a MAC it's going to hurt you in heavy wind IMO. It's a configuration that has been around for hundreds of years used by cargo ships. If you have a vang you must release it to get that shape.

I WANT THAT SCOTCH !

[Russ]

I would have a vang on 'boat' for running but I really can't get the main out far enough before it runs into the spreaders anyway so I have not bothered. If my main was billowing bad on a run I probably would add the vang, but it's just not been an issue.

Agreed. This is a problem with the Mac running down wind. Spreaders get in the way.
A vang is a good idea, but not a critical part of sailing a Mac.

there are "Muscle Head" sails you can get with extra battens and cloth up there but on a MAC it's going to hurt you in heavy wind IMO

Also agree here. Too much power up high hurts a light ballasted boat in a heavy wind. Probably helps in lighter winds.

--Russ

[BOAT]

Yes, it seems that the real issue for sailboats is the POSITION of the ballast, not what the ballast is or how much. Even a little bit of ballast way down low can make a boat stiffen up pretty fast, but trailer boats like the MAC and the Aquarius, and the Hunter that carry all their ballast up high are not going to get that instant response, the ballast is so high up it takes a lot of heel angle before you feel anything pushing back. I have often wondered what even a little bit of lead, like 100 pounds, in the end of the daggerboard would do.

Someday I might buy a spare daggerboard and take the one i have already that is pretty banged up and fill the bottom of it with lead just to see how the boat sails with that.

I think it could make a SIGNIFICANT difference. (Could break off the daggerboard too?)

It would be quite a mod.