Foam Floatation...Is it needed?

[kadet]

I am getting ready to fit a new anchor roller etc.. and was eyeing the space below the v-berth for a V shaped water bladder. How important is these off-cuts of packing foam really?

Would 50kg of fresh water up front make the boat nose heavy or just compensate for all the cr@p I have in the rear double birth?

I don't operate too far offshore I have an EPIRB, VHF and normally have an inflatable hanging off the back davits. How many of those 6M plus Aluminium offshore fishing boats will float if flipped?

Does an really need to pretend to be a giant beanbag to be safe?

[Wayne nicol]

Hi kadet, would you mind posting some pics of your davits

I wouldn't think it would be a problem, I have seen mods where they put 70l in jugs under the v berth in the locker area. Is that not an option for you, or see if you can stuff the foam somewhere else, equally workable. Is there not space for both the bladder and the foam, haven't opened that up yet!!

[kadet]

Here is a series of picture for you.

http://s511.beta.photobucket.com/user/_ ... ary/Davits

The wire bracing has now been replaced with an aluminium frame and an 80W solar panel mounted on it.



I also use the V berth locker space for storage of extra sails and dive gear. The bow portion looks like a good spot to put a bladder.

[dlandersson]

OTOH, it may not be an issue.

OTOH, if there were any problems, a passenger could sue you for removing/changing a designed safety feature of the boat. Like it of not, the foam is there for a reason.

I am getting ready to fit a new anchor roller etc.. and was eyeing the space below the v-berth for a V shaped water bladder. How important is these off-cuts of packing foam really?

Would 50kg of fresh water up front make the boat nose heavy or just compensate for all the cr@p I have in the rear double birth?

I don't operate too far offshore I have an EPIRB, VHF and normally have an inflatable hanging off the back davits. How many of those 6M plus Aluminium offshore fishing boats will float if flipped?

Does an really need to pretend to be a giant beanbag to be safe?

[raycarlson]

never heard of an instance yet where the foam saved the day for a mac. I discard it as I mod an area that has it if its in the way.I prefer insurance over foam personally.

[kadet]

Found the old factory blurb

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm



Reads and looks like a marketing strategy to me with no real benefit. That boat has no gear and no motor and is in calm water.
Kind of like towing a skier, doing 25MPH and towing the thing with a regular family sedan. Might be possible straight out of the mould, but set up for cruising in the real world?

Think Ray has convinced me

Me thinks bye bye foam hello freshwater showers after diving.

If it's goin' down I'm getin' in the dink and poppin' the EPIRB don't have to worry about hypothermia only toothy critters here.

[tlgibson97]

The foam will just allow the boat to be recovered if it "sinks". The sales videos showed how the boat floats with a hole in it but that was an empty boat. Most of us have them loaded down so much that it would sit a lot lower in the water. Remove some foam and it'll sit even lower.

I also plan to add a water tank up under the v-berth too. I'd lso like to move the batteries up there too under the most aft panel that's screwed down. I notice when we are swimming around the boat that it sits low in the rear and lists to port a few degrees. Throw 4 adults in the cockpit and it is sitting even lower in the rear. I'll eventually add some solar panels to the arc so even more weight aft.

Last year I tried setting the mast rake on the water but found I dont have enough turnbuckle in the forestay to get it at the angle I want. I'm sure it's because the boat sits with the bow high in the water causing the mast to angle back more than is needed. I almost shortened the forestay to resolve it until I realized what the actual issue was.

So in my situation, I think it would be well worth the advantages of putting a tank in the bow. I'd have more water and the boat would likely sail better. The trade-off is the boat might sink to the bottom if holed. I spend 99% of the time in the lake so I'm not as concerned with the safety aspect of it.

I think it's something each person has to decide and weigh the pros and cons of it.

[kadet]

tlgibson97 I'm with you all good observations and I feel the same I am a$$ heavy.

[NiceAft]

Kadet,

When I purchased Nice Aft in 2004, I ordered it with a lot of options to be installed by the dealer. One of those was a thirty gallon (113 Liters) water bladder with an electric pump. Otho installed it in the very same area you are inquiring about. It has been there all of this time.

If you are going to do this, I also had a shower hose and head installed. It is hidden, tucked away in the engine well.

Ray

[kadet]

Thanks Ray that is almost the exact plan. How do you find sailing with and without the bladder full?

[NiceAft]

I have never sailed with it full. Only partially.

A bladder that size, when full, weighs 240 Lbs., or 108 KG. It always stuck me as too much weight, too far forward for anything other than rivers and inland lakes on a nice day. I don't think I would sail open water with that much weight forward. I may just not be an aggressive sailor?

If you are going to install a bladder that size, and you are going to fill it to capacity, then you must keep the ballast full. It equals the weight of a heavy adult standing on the bow. Maybe that's the best way to judge how the boat handles. Have someone weighing 108 KG stand on the bow while you sail in questionable conditions

Ray

[kadet]

Here ya I was only planing on 50L so about 50kg and it is low in the bow so hopefully should not make much difference.

[NiceAft]

This thought just occurred to me.

A Mac is never supposed to be sailed with ballast partially filled. I'm guessing that aside from not enough weight for self righting, the sloshing water could affect stability. A large, partially filled bladder may affect a smaller though similar effect. Just guessing.

Ray

[dlandersson]

Good observation. Anything in a boat should not be able to shift unless you want it to.

This thought just occurred to me.

A Mac is never supposed to be sailed with ballast partially filled. I'm guessing that aside from not enough weight for self righting, the sloshing water could affect stability. A large, partially filled bladder may affect a smaller though similar effect. Just guessing.

Ray

[Russ]

The foam will just allow the boat to be recovered if it "sinks". The sales videos showed how the boat floats with a hole in it but that was an empty boat. Most of us have them loaded down so much that it would sit a lot lower in the water. Remove some foam and it'll sit even lower.

This is my belief also. Marketing photo show a flooded boat. If holed, we would have a stable vessel to cling to.
As you said, most of us have outboards, batteries, gear, and lots of stuff to weigh it down. The marketing photo shows a boat sans outboard. I also wonder if the ballast was full. That would provide a LOT of flotation. I doubt that photo is accurate in the real world with a flooded Mac.

I've found many Mac owners gain comfort in the unsinkable aspect of the Mac. Same could be said for passengers on the Titanic.
A good lawyer might find removing the flotation a reason to find guilt in a tragedy. This is a good reason to leave it in place. Lawyers are a nasty bunch. But in my experience with insurance companies (Hurricane Sandy), most are clueless about this stuff. They expect boats to sink. If your boat sank, I doubt it would change the claim much.

Then I think of what would sink our boats. We have no thru holes to leak. No hoses, clamps, valves to fail. The X has that pole that goes below the waterline when the boat is heavily loaded, full ballast. But really, it would take hitting something to sink us. A big log could be bad. Then we'd be hugging the log waiting for help. A rock? Rocks tend to be close to shore, or at leas you can stand on them until help arrives.

I love the BoatUS magazine. They often illustrate what sank a boat they paid a claim on. It's almost always the "holes" in boats that fail. Inboard engine cooling failures, thru hole fittings eaten by rats, clamps that rusted, frozen thru hull fitting, all kinds of stuff but almost always an existing hole in the boat that failed. We don't have them. Well, not stock anyway.

A handheld VHF is much more valuable than flotation in my opinion. I'd rather be sitting in that dingy with my VHF and EPIRB than a swamped hull.




--Russ