Outboard rudder

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats
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Ixneigh
Admiral
Posts: 2461
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:00 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Key largo Florida

Re: Outboard rudder

Post by Ixneigh »

That's way too much play. I think that's your problem right there. My M has less then one steering wheel spoke worth. If you use the boat a lot, the steering bar and pivot point may be slightly worn. Else wise I dunno. Too much though.
You could shift weight aft to see if it helps the boat track. I keep mine bow heavy since it seems to sail better, but then it's slightly squirrelly under power. I installed two skegs on the bottom and they help, but at a very slight hit in speed.

My fuel consumption was around 3.5 mpg on full throttle with an etec 60.
That was about 15-16 kn.

At around 4.5 kn I get better then 10 mpg.

At 6.5 I think it was around 7 mpg.

I hardly ever run the boat semi plane mode so I didn't test.
Ix
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mastreb
Admiral
Posts: 3927
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:00 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Cardiff by the Sea, CA ETEC-60 "Luna Sea"
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Re: Outboard rudder

Post by mastreb »

Harrison, it does sound like you need to go through and find the sources of looseness in your steering system and get them tightnened up. A lot of people use CDs as shims to tighten up the rudders.

Irrespective, these boats are never stable between 8 and 12 knots, and that's where they also have the worst efficiently. You'll use less fuel at 14 knots than at 10.

Here's another way to think of the problem. When you are steering in displacement mode below 7 knots, think about how the boat moves: it "rolls" to the outside of the turn, I.e., the mast leans out of the turn. The bow wake, if any, is well forward.

Now think about the how the boat leans when you are semi-planing above 12 knots: the boat rolls into the turn, with the mast leaning inside. The bow wake is aft of the boat's center of gravity.

So, when does the boat switch from rolling outboard at low speed to rolling into turns at high speed? The answer is somewhere between 8 and 12 knots depending on the boat's moment of pitch, the location of the bow wake in relation to the center of gravity, and the wave action of the seas. The real answer is that it constantly shifts from one roll regime to the other as these three dynamic variables move around. It is this mechanism that causes what I referred to as "the zone of instability". steering is unstable as the boat shifts roll modes constantly.

The manual states categorically at you shouldn't use any boards down above 7 knots, and this is one of two reasons why. Once the roll mode switches to inboard turns, the boards fight the inboard roll and cause additional instability. Now, a small bit of daggerboard acts more like a small stabilizer than a board and so I'd say that's okay, but you definitely want it all the way up when you're on a semi -plane above 12 knots.

The other reason you shouldn't put them down is that they aren't engineered for the loads above 7 knots.

The reason this zone is inefficient is because the boat is constantly trying to climb it's own bow wake. You're litterally generating a hill and then climbing it all the time. Once youre above 12 knots, you've crested the hill and efficiency picks back up. I've measured all this with my ETEC electronically reporting fuel usage to my chart plotter, and posted the numbers some time back. You can search the forums for that article.

P.S. I live 20 mins south of Dana--PM me next time you're out and I'll have a beer with you!
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Steve K
Captain
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:35 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26D
Location: So. Cal. desert

Re: Outboard rudder

Post by Steve K »

Harrison,
When I had my X, I was slipped at Dana Point for awhile.
I can't speak for your M, but I did find the best way to get to Catalina was to sail there.
But if I had a short weekend I'd motor, full speed, no ballast, all boards up.
My X boat did have a 160 mile range, motoring (two 12gl tanks and one 10gl under skipper seat) with the 50hp Merc. (original owner of my boat liked to go out 70 miles for Tuna, he said). I always had plenty of fuel, so never actually check the usage.
To motor to Catalina on those dead glassy days, just take along an extra tank and motor WOT with no ballast and no boards down. You won't use that much more fuel, 'cause the boat will be up on a plane and these boats are easier to point straight at higher speeds.

I did have an Auto Pilot, and just pushing the button on the gps and letting the boat go was great. The boat would actually motor to Avalon or Two Harbors, and back to Dana Point by itself, when the AP was working properly.

Best Breezes,
SK
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Harrison
First Officer
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Frederick, CO. '05 M, Merc 60 Bigfoot

Re: Outboard rudder

Post by Harrison »

Thanks again everyone for all the input and suggestions. :)

I've always thought that the steering was WAY too loose. Thanks for confirming. Along those lines, does anyone have a primer, or exploded view, or any info on the steering system in the pedestal? Anyone ever rebuild the thing? I'm thinking that's going to be my starting place.

Thanks again!
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