Help - slighly discouraged - setting up rig on 26x - failure

[WASP18]

Wild guess, but I have a feeling the forestay was getting bound inside the furler foil.

If it were me, I'd disconnect the forestay and slide it out the top of the foil and inspect. DON'T run your hand along the wire, as if there is a broken wire, it WILL impale you, and an oily hole in your skin from an errant broken wire hurts like the dickens. If your furler was improperly connected below the drum, then it wouldn't surprise me if the forestay got wound up a bit, and/or has broken wires. With the mast down, it takes minutes to pop it free at the turnbuckle and slip it out the top of the foil, and it's super cheap insurance that something isn't deadly wrong inside the foil, where you can't normally see it.

Just a feeling, from working with wire rope for the last 40 years (crane industry).

While I was disconnecting the top of the forestay from the mast, I then noticed a broken wire on the top of the (wire-built) forestay loop. Could this be an indication of hidden damage to wires inside the furler?

I just placed the boat in the water at a marina which has a boat launching ramp. Looks like I'll be pulling the boat our of the water, then lowering the mast to follow-through with your recommendations. Perhaps I should talk to you through e-mail and not use up this thread, unless you think others may benefit from my experience.

[Catigale]

This whole forum is about sharing our ideas and our mistakes - the users here do a great job of keeping it civil so that we can do this without anarchy.

Broken strands are usually from trailering or fatigue failure - can you post a pic?

[81venture]

This whole forum is about sharing our ideas and our mistakes - the users here do a great job of keeping it civil so that we can do this without anarchy.

there is sometimes a little Anarchy

[WASP18]

Wild guess, but I have a feeling the forestay was getting bound inside the furler foil.

If it were me, I'd disconnect the forestay and slide it out the top of the foil and inspect. DON'T run your hand along the wire, as if there is a broken wire, it WILL impale you, and an oily hole in your skin from an errant broken wire hurts like the dickens. If your furler was improperly connected below the drum, then it wouldn't surprise me if the forestay got wound up a bit, and/or has broken wires. With the mast down, it takes minutes to pop it free at the turnbuckle and slip it out the top of the foil, and it's super cheap insurance that something isn't deadly wrong inside the foil, where you can't normally see it.

Just a feeling, from working with wire rope for the last 40 years (crane industry).

While I was disconnecting the top of the forestay from the mast, I then noticed a broken wire on the top of the (wire-built) forestay loop. Could this be an indication of hidden damage to wires inside the furler?

I just placed the boat in the water at a marina which has a boat launching ramp. Looks like I'll be pulling the boat out of the water, then lowering the mast to follow-through with your recommendations. Perhaps I should talk to you through e-mail and not use up this thread, unless you think others may benefit from my experience.

(with the mast down) Looks like if I remove the "Luff support pin", the luff will slide up thereby exposing the turnbuckle. Is that what you meant by "it takes minutes to pop it free at the turnbuckle and slip it out the top of the 'foil'? I'm reading from the CDI Flexible Furler 2 operating instructions booklet and using their terminology to be sure that we're on the same page. Today was rainy. I'll attempt this tomorrow and will be in touch. By the way, were you a hoisting engineer or mechanical engineer?

To Catigale: I don't have the means to provide pictures. I still use a "dumb phone". There is one steel strand at the top of the forestay which is broken. The PO didn't trailer much, so my guess is the break was from misuse. We'll see. Thanks for jumping in.

[Tomfoolery]

(with the mast down) Looks like if I remove the "Luff support pin", the luff will slide up thereby exposing the turnbuckle. Is that what you meant by "it takes minutes to pop it free at the turnbuckle and slip it out the top of the 'foil'? I'm reading from the CDI Flexible Furler 2 operating instructions booklet and using their terminology to be sure that we're on the same page.

Yes, partly at least. The 'Luff Support Pin' marked "C" on page (2) pops out, and the drum will slide up the foil, exposing the turnbuckle. All that pin does is hold the drum down. Once the drum is slid up, you can undo the cotter pins and unscrew the stud that's swaged onto the bottom end of the forestay. Once the turnbuckle is removed, the forestay will slide right out of the top of the foil for inspection or replacement (I'd suggest replacing it - you already have one broken wire that you know of, and it ain't getting better on its own).

Page (7), by the way, has a couple of clear pictures of the lower toggle and anti-rotation bracket, under that furling drum housing. If you were the one asking about it. I've kinda lost track.

[WASP18]

I removed the "Luff support pin" and I can't get the drum to slide up the foil.

Plan B (What do you think?) I'm going to re-attach the pin and put everything back to where it was. We could then use it strictly as a motor cruiser for the remaining six weeks in the season. I'll trailer it home late September and find someone who would make house calls on these issues.

I suspect the forestay would be ok considering that it will not be under any sailing stress.

What do you think?

[Tomfoolery]

What do you think?

I think that if you're going to do that, you should tie the spinnaker halyard to the bow rail as a backup. At least until you can replace the forestay. And get all the other rigging right.

[Catigale]

I removed the "Luff support pin" and I can't get the drum to slide up the foil.

Plan B (What do you think?) I'm going to re-attach the pin and put everything back to where it was. We could then use it strictly as a motor cruiser for the remaining six weeks in the season. I'll trailer it home late September and find someone who would make house calls on these issues.

I suspect the forestay would be ok considering that it will not be under any sailing stress.

What do you think?

It isn't the stress that breaks forestays, its the fatigue. Too loose is actually worse than too tight.You don't want it banging around - thats how those strands of wire break one-by-one.

Get some tension on it somehow - even if its just some loops of line to the pulpit and get it nice and tight.

[beene]

This is how it should look



G

[Starscream]

I removed the "Luff support pin" and I can't get the drum to slide up the foil.

Plan B (What do you think?) I'm going to re-attach the pin and put everything back to where it was. We could then use it strictly as a motor cruiser for the remaining six weeks in the season. I'll trailer it home late September and find someone who would make house calls on these issues.

I suspect the forestay would be ok considering that it will not be under any sailing stress.

What do you think?

If I read the manual correctly, you should undo the stopper knot that holds the furling line to the drum before you can lift the drum. Look at steps 12 and 13. Step 12 is what you want it to look like, and step 13 is what it looks like now. The Luff support pin is installed and the drum lowered in step 12. Step 13 is to tie the knot. SO, logically, to lift the drum for access to the turnbuckle, the knot needs to be undone as well. Just my interpretation.

I just replaced my backstay and sidestays yesterday, and have a new forestay to install in the CDI furler, hopefully tomorrow. I'll see what I can learn and if I figure it out I'll post the procedure. Pinning the furler during mast raising has always been a real pain but I never knew about adjusting the turnbuckle. I'll see if I can get it right.

One thing I learned from Ezra at BWY is that the little black fittings at the end of the spreaders, where the upper sidestays pass through, shouldn't be tightened all the way down and should actually just allow the stay to slide within the fitting. Mine were screwed down tight, and I put them back tight but not so tight that the wires can't slide within them. I worried about about the screws backing out so I'll place some tape over the ends to make sure that doesn't happen. HOWEVER, now that I have made the change, the spreaders, which used to just touch the lifelines while trailering, are now much lower and I had to undo the lifelines to get the mast back in trailering position. Not really sure why: at first I thought the mast crutch had somehow lowered in its hole, or maybe that the spreaders used to be under tension which held them in a different position. I really don't know. All I am sure of is that I have thousands of km of trailering with the spreaders resting nicely on the lifelines, and after the stay change that won't work anymore and I'll have to remove the spreaders for trailering.

All five stays, plus stay adjusters, pins and ringdings, came out to $570 Canadian delivered to Montreal, and so far have been very easy to install...just a phillips screwdriver and the standard 7/16 and 9/16 drivers. The fittings that bolt to the mast were already attached to the stays so changing the four sidestays and the backstay was a matter of only a few minutes. Took longer to get the mast off the boat than to do the actual work. The old stays have some serious permanent kinks in them.

[WASP18]

What do you think?

I think that if you're going to do that, you should tie the spinnaker halyard to the bow rail as a backup. At least until you can replace the forestay. And get all the other rigging right.

This is frustrating, to say the least. I can't tell you how long it was spending the afternoon trying to get the drum to slide up the foil. I then tried to align the holes to replace the luff support pin. The actual hole(s) was a snug fit for the pin which means it has to be an absolutely perfect alignment and there is no way to align the holes because they cannot be seen. I even tried a ball point pen refill as a probe to find the hole and that didn't work.

Are these holes originally drilled by the owner or installer? If so, should I drill another hole to re-install the luff support pin. Please bear with me and my ignorance, by the way. I also don't understand how I can see the complete forestay to observe its condition when it's covered with the genoa. Sounds like I only need to see the area which connects the forestay to the turnbuckle??

Starscream: thanks for joining the conversation. I'm looking forward to your descriptions. Thanks "Tomfoolery" for your help and your patience.

[kadet]

I also don't understand how I can see the complete forestay to observe its condition when it's covered with the genoa.

Undo the turn buckle completely then pull the stay out of the top of the foil. If your foil has the slightest kink use a messenger line or you will never get that stay back in. My furler uses an aluminium foil so no kinks so it was easy to change the stay without a messenger line, though it did hang up at one point for a bit and give me a scare

[Starscream]

This is frustrating, to say the least. I can't tell you how long it was spending the afternoon trying to get the drum to slide up the foil. I then tried to align the holes to replace the luff support pin. The actual hole(s) was a snug fit for the pin which means it has to be an absolutely perfect alignment and there is no way to align the holes because they cannot be seen. I even tried a ball point pen refill as a probe to find the hole and that didn't work.

Are these holes originally drilled by the owner or installer? If so, should I drill another hole to re-install the luff support pin. Please bear with me and my ignorance, by the way. I also don't understand how I can see the complete forestay to observe its condition when it's covered with the genoa. Sounds like I only need to see the area which connects the forestay to the turnbuckle??

The manual states (I added the bold):
"Insert the luff support pin through the hole in the furling drum throat. The luff rests on top of this pin (see picture). No hole in the luff is needed for the pin. CAUTION: the luff must not sit on the turnbuckle body as turning the furler might unscrew the turnbuckle causing dismasting."

I might not be following correctly, but it sounds like you may be trying to align the hole in the drum and a possibly non-existent hole in the luff?

[WASP18]

This is frustrating, to say the least. I can't tell you how long it was spending the afternoon trying to get the drum to slide up the foil. I then tried to align the holes to replace the luff support pin. The actual hole(s) was a snug fit for the pin which means it has to be an absolutely perfect alignment and there is no way to align the holes because they cannot be seen. I even tried a ball point pen refill as a probe to find the hole and that didn't work.

Are these holes originally drilled by the owner or installer? If so, should I drill another hole to re-install the luff support pin. Please bear with me and my ignorance, by the way. I also don't understand how I can see the complete forestay to observe its condition when it's covered with the genoa. Sounds like I only need to see the area which connects the forestay to the turnbuckle??

The manual states (I added the bold):
"Insert the luff support pin through the hole in the furling drum throat. The luff rests on top of this pin (see picture). No hole in the luff is needed for the pin. CAUTION: the luff must not sit on the turnbuckle body as turning the furler might unscrew the turnbuckle causing dismasting."

I might not be following correctly, but it sounds like you may be trying to align the hole in the drum and a possibly non-existent hole in the luff?

THANK YOU!! Imagine spending yesterday afternoon looking for a hole in the luff that doesn't exist? Duh!!

It's late in the boating season and I need to expedite. I'm going to haul the boat out, take it home, remove the mast, rigging , etc. return to the marina, launch the boat and use it as a trawler. Meanwhile, I'll approach the problem in my backyard while the mast and genoa are resting on sawhorses. Reducing the pressure of getting the job done may increase my reading comprehension.

"Tomfoolery": a very special thanks to you for sending out your warnings and safety advise.

[K9Kampers]

...Meanwhile, I'll approach the problem in my backyard while the mast and genoa are resting on sawhorses. Reducing the pressure of getting the job done may increase my reading comprehension.

I used to go thru the same frustrations each time I had to work on my furler. It always seemed like the CDI manual left out bits of information. The best way to fully understand how this mechanism works is to completely disassemble, study, and re-assemble it. You will see that there is no magic and it will make it easier to troubleshoot on the water.

Refer to the VIDEO for a look at how the parts go together.