26S bilge question

[danphilgreen]

Hi all. I have been searching but not finding an answer so I'm going to go ahead and post a question. My fairly new to me 26S came with a bilge pump in the bottom of the laz. I was under the impression that the laz was open to the rest of the bilge under the cabin. Upon crawling around in there the other night using a flashlight and mirror, it appears that the bulkhead between the aft berth and the laz is solid all the way down to the hull. I'm a bit confused because I was pretty sure I was noticing bilge water (after some torrential rains while the boat was tied up at a dock) making it's way to the laz where I pumped it out. Is there some kind of small hole somewhere where water can get through to the laz? Or is my imagination playing tricks on me?

I've learned a lot already from roaming around this forum. Thanks to you all for sharing so much great info.

Oh, by the way: We will have the formal christening at our next launch, but I have applied the lettering to the transom. We are calling her "Goldilocks." The first boat I bought after moving to Fort Myers (an almost derelict Oday 27 that consumed hundreds of hours of work and yielded no actual sailing) was too big. The second boat (a 15' Cape Cod Mercury) proved to be too small. We are quite confident that the Mac is going to be "just right." Also my wife is blonde and it looks like my new granddaughter is going to be so it works on several levels. The boat is a 1990 and has never before been named, so it's about time.

Dan Philgreen
26S Goldilocks
Fort Myers

[grady]

The laz is seperate from the cabin. Not sure why you would want the only bilge pump to be there. I am sure you could hole the laz and probably not even notice. I did a port/starboard set up. They discharge out of the opposite side.

[Sumner]

I think there is a small opening on mine at the bottom between the laz and cabin but might be wrong and too much snow on the boat to go look. There is one up higher for sure where the cockpit drain goes but pretty sure of a small one at the very bottom,

Sumner

============================

1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[grady]

I will double check mine and let you know, I put my thru hull transducer in the laz because it was seperate and figured if it leaked no big deal. If it ever got up high enough to leak past where the cockpit drain I have bigger issues. I will be going to the marina this weekend to check on it. This weekend will be the first time I am able to check on it since the tornado came thru and destroyed Rowlett. My friend in the slip next to me said everything looked good and only one boat sank in the marina, and it sank because it lost power.

[danphilgreen]

Thanks Grady and Sum. I was thinking about making a hole in the bottom of the bulkhead with a small hole saw and then keeping it plugged unless there was water to get rid of. But then there may already be a hole somewhere that I just haven't been able to find yet.

[FlyboyTR]

Dan,
I have a 26S. I have a hole drilled through the bulkhead about half way along the bottom from the center line of the boat. I have battery cables that feed through there. Although, I would have to have a lot of water in one compartment or the other before I would get transfer. I have water that accumulates in my lazarette. I have a little water that is coming around some of the deck hardware and around the rub-rail where the hull is mated to the topside.

While installing my permanent fuel tank, I happen to notice water dripping under the motor well. It had been raining off and on for a couple of days and while I was in the laz...it started pouring. I closed the lid to stay dry and turned on the light. Suddenly...what I found was that I have some rotted wood in the stern in the motor mount area and water dripping in from the bottom of the wood encased cavity. From sitting inside the lazarette, looking at the motor mount area you can see it is thicker than the starboard side of the stern (wood). On my boat the bottom of this cavity is open on the bottom. On the topside where the motor sits, there is a piece of trim that covers the joint between the hull and the topside (or motor well). It is leaking around and under that trim.

While I am doing sail and rigging upgrades, I will remove the motor and the aforementioned trim and start pouring acetone through the wood to help remove the water in the wood. If I can determine that the rot is minimal (hopefully just along the bottom), I will drill some deep holes from the top down, seal the bottom of the cavity and start filling it with a thin epoxy.

But...that is the major leak source in my lazarette.

[Interim]

i have a 1" hole in the laz right at the bottom of the bulkhead, about 6" to port of center. This is for battery cables, but water does flow in from the bilges.

I am hoping to keep my 26s in the water this summer, so I plan to install a pump. Since this thread seems to suggest the laz is a bad place for the pump, what is the best location? do you discharge through the galley thru-hull? do the bilges connect well enough that one pump serves, or do i need port and starboard pumps?

--john

[Sumner]

i have a 1" hole in the laz right at the bottom of the bulkhead, about 6" to port of center. This is for battery cables, but water does flow in from the bilges.

I am hoping to keep my 26s in the water this summer, so I plan to install a pump. Since this thread seems to suggest the laz is a bad place for the pump, what is the best location? do you discharge through the galley thru-hull? do the bilges connect well enough that one pump serves, or do i need port and starboard pumps?

--john

I've never had any standing water in my laz and think the reason why is ...



... the hole at the bottom of the bulkhead and the fact that the lowest part of the interior is ahead of that under the cabin seats and next to the bilge on both sides where I think in laz water will drain to in my boat. I have had rain water under the seats and also water came in via the tube under the sink that the centerboard up-haul line runs through. Only a couple times from there when I was pounding through some heavy waves on the Bahama trip and it would hydraulic water up that tube on occasion (quite a bit a couple times). I cut up sponge and forced it down the tube and then taped the top closed but the cable could still ride up and down. I hope to make the tube higher and make a plug for the cable to run through.

I have a bilge pump on the port side....





http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-29.html

...and want to install one on the starboard side. My thinking is if worst case I had water come in the starboard side right now the boat would start to heel to that side as the ballast tank would prevent it from running to the port side unless it got high enough to run over there before the listing of boat got too extreme to run over there. As the boat listed to starboard the port side would raise and the water might get quite high inside before getting to the pump there and it could never pump it all out as long as the boat was listing to starboard.

I might be overthinking this but I did buy a second pump and just need to install it. If you are 50 miles from the nearest land and no other boat in the vicinity things like this start to weigh on your mind ,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[FlyboyTR]

i have a 1" hole in the laz right at the bottom of the bulkhead, about 6" to port of center. This is for battery cables, but water does flow in from the bilges.

I am hoping to keep my 26s in the water this summer, so I plan to install a pump. Since this thread seems to suggest the laz is a bad place for the pump, what is the best location? do you discharge through the galley thru-hull? do the bilges connect well enough that one pump serves, or do i need port and starboard pumps?

--john

Our 26S has a single pump on the starboard side, plumbed into the sink drain. I had concerns about water backflowing into the boat when healed over. Yep...first trip out in some good wind and I thought about the plumbing. Went below and sure enough...there was a bunch of water flowing into the boat. The next day I installed a PVC ball valve in line with the pump so that water could not backflow. Basically what Sumner did. I really would not recommend that set up...too easy to forget and if the boat took on enough water to get that low fitting in the water...your boat is a goner if you don't have an auto pump system.

One of our upcoming projects is to mount two automatic pumps in each side (in the areas Sumner mentioned...pour a quart of water under either sofa and you will find your low spot) and run the discharge lines out the rear of the boat or possibly into the cockpit drain system. I will take the original pump and mount it in the lazarette. Why not...better safe than sorry.

[Sumner]

... The next day I installed a PVC ball valve in line with the pump so that water could not backflow. Basically what Sumner did. I really would not recommend that set up...too easy to forget and if the boat took on enough water to get that low fitting in the water...your boat is a goner if you don't have an auto pump system..

just to clarify something. I put the valve in but I really don't feel that it is necessary as...



... the outlet on the hose going to the pump is well above the rub rail on the boat and the boat would almost have to be knocked over for it to take on water and guys that have tried to knock them down have only managed that for a few seconds before they righted themselves. I've sailed with the boat for a long ways heeled over to the point where she would occasionally roundup and the outlet isn't in the water. I haven't been able to get her heeled over past that so doubt I ever will,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[grady]

Better than a ball valve.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... &id=826034

I put one of these in each line just to be safe.

[FlyboyTR]

Sumner,
Sorry if I misspoke. I thought you had installed the ball valve before you raised the through hull outlet. My apologies.

Grady, thanks for the link. When I do the pump upgrades as I mentioned earlier, I will be installing this between the two and then running to one exit. That way, each pump could run independent of each other and not backflow water into the other side of the hull.

http://www.amazon.com/SeaSense-Dual-Bil ... pump+valve

[Sumner]

What is actually recommended....

To prevent backflow, we’d plumb the pumps to vented anti-siphon loops. Both pump makers and the ABYC discourage using check valves.

http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/ ... 414-1.html

That is what I have on the Endeavour (3 pumps and 3 different houses and anti-siphon loops). As high as I have my discharge on the Mac I'm not too worried about what I have and the ball valve gives complete flow if needed. I don't leave the boat moored or on a dock so not worried about it sinking when I'm gone. I have bought elect. float switches for both pumps and will install them. If I had a major problem I could open the valves and turn on the pumps but the float switches would then turn them on and off so I wouldn't have to worry about burning the pumps out while I was attending to the emergency.

I should of done this before the Bahama trip but that was kind of a spare of the moment decision to go. For lake or coastal cruising I don't think it is a major concern. Now if my boat was in the water all the time I would for sure want an operating bilge pump but there again since we don't have thru-hulls below the water line the chances of the boat being holed sitting there are pretty darn slim. I've never used the pump for rain water as there is never enough water in the bilge to be able to use it. I just sponge it out and I need to reseal things (chain plates/windows) again.

Sumner
============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Curious Sailor]

Awesome info! I have to install bilge pumps in my v21 which is chambered because of the keel trunk and forward berth!

The photos and info posted are really helpful and have given me some great ideas as far as where to start!

Thanks...



http://curioussailor.blogspot.com/

[My Mistress]

What would you more experienced Mac sailors recommend as a minimum GPH for a bilge pump? Mistress came with a 300gph pump under the starboard settee.