Raymarine Sport-Pilot Remote

[Chip Hindes]

Can anyone recommend a good place to buy this at $350?

Here it is at Defender. The MAP price is listed at $399 but the actual price is $357. I believe the few bucks extra to deal with a known outfit is preferable to Fly By Night Autopilots, Inc, and I can heartily recommend Defender; it's were I do the majority of my online shopping for the Mac. I got my ST4000 from them including the rudder position sensor for $750, nearly $200 less than West Marine version without the RPS. I still think the RPS was included by mistake, but oh, well.

I've heard West Marine will price match, but why put up with the hassle? Plus WM charges state tax and I save tax when dealing with Defender.

Not to hijack the thread but my problem mentioned above is closely related. I've racked my brain (OK, I admit that didn't take very long) to come up with a solution to the "falling-overboard-while-singlehanding" question and I'm stumped.

An engine lanyard type setup hooked to the autopilot power might seem the simplest method. This wouldn't be so good with the ST4000 because when you cut the power without releasing the (manual) clutch, the wheel simply remains locked in its last position. If, as it should be, the rig is well balanced, unless there's a fortuitous wind shift the boat will continue to sail away from you for a very long time.

Anything else becomes electronically more complicated and depends on the the autopilot acting in a predictable fashion. For instance, does anyone know what happens when the autopilot loses the compass reference? Does it do something predictable or does it just go haywire?

The other question is, even if there was a way to get the autopilot to react in some predictable fashion, exactly what might you want it to do? Putting the rudder hard over as Moe says might be marginally better than continuing to sail a straight course, but then you've got your boat running in continuous circles, tacking, jibing, backwinding and just generally behaving in an unruly if not downright dangerous fashion.

I guess the best case behaviour would be to have it turn into the wind and remain head-to, and you might be able to swim to it. I suppose while we're at it, it would relase the sheets, furl the genny, drop the main and then the anchor and swim ladder

But anyway, anything that involves heading any particular direction to the wind would require a windex input.

Any other thoughts on the matter?

[tidalwave]

I ordered the S-100 wireless remote control along with the ST-4000
autopilot from Defender.
Defender backordered the S-100 and then cancelled the backorder stating that they could not get the S-100 from their distributor.

I contacted RayMarine...they replied that the S-100 controller was the primary controller for several of their autopilots and that all of the S-100's were being dedicated to those autopilots.

They stated that later this Spring-Summer, 2005 they may have some S-100 units available for separate sale.

If you are going to order an S-100 remote...make sure that your retailer has them in stock...you might have a long wait otherwise.

[Chip Hindes]

Hmm; no gots. Kind of irresponsible of Raymarine adverstising something they don't actually offer, but that seems pretty much standard procedure for most of today's retailers. Advertise first, actually provide product some time later.

I see from the specs both wireless remotes are factory "preregistered" to the base stations, so that implies that crosstalk from the other guy's remote won't be a problem.

I also see the autopilot is designed to drop to standby as a safety factor when the remote is out of range. Guess that's failsafe in some instances, but I can think of other cases when I'd just as soon the autopilot continue to work as it's supposed to rather than all of a sudden get stupid. Definitiely doesn't answer the falling overboard question as on standby the wheel locks, just as if you'd cut the power.

[mike]

Not to hijack the thread but my problem mentioned above is closely related. I've racked my brain (OK, I admit that didn't take very long) to come up with a solution to the "falling-overboard-while-singlehanding" question and I'm stumped.

An engine lanyard type setup hooked to the autopilot power might seem the simplest method. This wouldn't be so good with the ST4000 because when you cut the power without releasing the (manual) clutch, the wheel simply remains locked in its last position. If, as it should be, the rig is well balanced, unless there's a fortuitous wind shift the boat will continue to sail away from you for a very long time.

I'm a little surprised that autopilot manufacturers have not addressed this issue, especially considering that APs are used so heavily by singlehanders. Perhaps there's a liability worry there (maybe they don't feel comfortable enabling the AP to change course on its own like that).

I'm not sure if there's any simple way for us to add this sort of functionality... as you point out, the wheel would remain locked in position if power were cut. I'm guessing that if the compass was disconnected, the AP would just stop.

Here's an idea. Using one the previously mentioned "cheap" remotes (for its SeaTalk interface and ability to send course changes to the AP), build a small box that, when a lanyard is pulled out, does the equivilent of repeatedly pressing (electronically) the 10 degree button every 5 seconds or so. I'm not sure how the boat would behave (I doubt it would just circle obediently), but it would sure beat seeing it juts sail off into the sunset!

--Mike

[Frank C]

What a cool idea (steering your boat from ashore.) More likely, though it's to prevent the guy in the next boat from inadvertantly steering yours in some other direction; and vice versa. Unless they're multiplexed or coded in some way.

Raymarine certainly must specifically code each controller to it's helm. Otherwise, when headed for your slip in a crowded marina, you might find your Mac unexpectedly aimed straight at a behemoth CQR or Bulwagga hanging from the prow of a neighbor's million-dollar Carver!

[Frank C]

... Here's an idea. Using one the previously mentioned "cheap" remotes (for its SeaTalk interface and ability to send course changes to the AP), build a small box that, when a lanyard is pulled out, does the equivilent of repeatedly pressing (electronically) the 10 degree button every 5 seconds or so. I'm not sure how the boat would behave (I doubt it would just circle obediently) ...

I already have a lanyard on my outboard's throttle control box, but must admit that I never use it. As the market migrates to wireless remote control, a lanyard seems clearly outpaced. I think Moe's idea of an electronic anklet seems close to perfect ... if the anklet's controller was triggered to break the 12v line for both outboard and helm, it would equate to an "All-stop" command?

[mike]

I already have a lanyard on my outboard's throttle control box, but must admit that I never use it. As the market migrates to wireless remote control, a lanyard seems clearly outpaced. I think Moe's idea of an electronic anklet seems close to perfect ... if the anklet's controller was triggered to break the 12v line for both outboard and helm, it would equate to an "All-stop" command?

Yes, this would work fine when motoring, but Chip's point is that what if the sails are up and everything is trimmed and balanced perfectly? Simply cutting power to the autopilot won't help... the boat will continue to sail away. Now, there's a good chance (especially in my case) that the boat would NOT be balanced perfectly, and would eventually round up and stop on its own. But still, I'd feel much more comfortable if there were some way to have this be induced by the autopilot sooner.

In the meantime, I always clip on my outboard's kill-switch lanyard when I'm out in open water by myself, and if I need to go up on the cabintop while sailing, I use a tether.

--Mike

[Chip Hindes]

You gave me an idea. When you first power up, the ST4000 drives to port for three seconds to equalize wear on the belt. With no other input and without releasing the clutch, that would result in a permanent left turn. Not perfect, as you said it probably wouldn't do nice circles, but also as you said better than watching it sail away.

Now, how to induce a momentary power off.

[ChrisNorton]

Terry, Seems like you talked to Raymarine about this. What were some of the reasons they gave for not using it with the Sport Pilot? Did they recommend using the wired remote or no remote at all? Thanks for any details.


As for the falling overboard issue, I used to own one of those Kawasaki Stand-up jet skis and a Yamaha sit-down wave runner. The wave runner had a lanyard that just cut the engine when you fell off. The jet ski did not. When you let go of the throttle and fell off, it dropped to idle and did a slow, fairly tight circle at very slow speed. Typically it would come right back to you on the first turn. Obviously something like that would work with the autopilot when under engine power (although the liability issue is an important point.)

Under sail, wouldn't the boat when forced into a circle unmanned pretty quickly get in irons and stop? That would be most preferable.

As for the wireless remotes sensing when you are overboard, instead of having a lanyard, I am reminded of my other passion...Scuba Diving. All dive computers nowadays are water pressure activated (not just water activated which wouldn't work in the rain.) These computers automatically turn on when they are submerged more than 6-12 inches. Autopilot remotes could use the same pressure switch.

[mike]

You gave me an idea. When you first power up, the ST4000 drives to port for three seconds to equalize wear on the belt. With no other input and without releasing the clutch, that would result in a permanent left turn. Not perfect, as you said it probably wouldn't do nice circles, but also as you said better than watching it sail away.

Simply brilliant! Now we're making progress.

--Mike

[mike]

Now, how to induce a momentary power off.

Take a look at this...

About Time Delay Relays and Solid-State Timers

A one-shot timer is also called One Shot Relay, Single Shot, Single Shot Interval, Single Pulse, Latching Relay, Latching Off Delay and Latching Delay on De-Energization. Contacts change position immediately upon application of power and remain in changed position for the preset time delay. After the time delay, the contacts return to their normal position. Power must be applied before and during timing. Reset occurs when the time delay is completed and the control switch is opened.

If I'm reading this correctly, the power lead for the autopilot could be run through a normally-closed relay of this type, and if power were applied to the relay, it would instantly cut power to the autopilot, wait a predetermined length of time (say, a couple of seconds), then turn it back on. Are those outboard motor safety lanyard things open or closed when the clip is in place (we'd need it open and to close when the clip is removed, I think).

--Mike

[mike]

Here we go... looks like this would do the trick:

http://www.aluminio.com/a4121.htm

--Mike

[Terry Chiccino]

Chris, I'm in the process of installing the SportPilot+. I've got my Mac in the fiberglass shop at the moment as the dealer-BWY in Seattle installed the Tachometer below the steering wheel right where the thrust block has to mount so I wanted to have them patch the hole and be sure the area was properly reinforced.
I purchased the ST600 wired remote (which is still in the box) but would love to have the wireless. I've talked to the tech department several times about the wireless remote. At first, I was told the remote was not available for the Sportpilot series. ChipH, found out that the wireless will work with their seatalk system which the Sportpilot has. When I called tech support back they started talking about the fact that the SportPilot can be disabled from a certain course by just turning the wheel. Chip is talking about flipping a lever to change course manually with the ST4000 and then locking the wheel down again. That seems to be the key here. I don't exactly know how all this ties in as I have no experience with autopilots yet. Mabey others with more experience in the matter could chime in here.

[deacm]

My Raymarine Wireless remote for my ST 4000 AUtopilot just arrived at the dealer yesterday. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Andy26M]

Regarding the falling-overboard issue:

The time-honored way of dealing with this is to simply tie yourself to the boat with a safety lanyard/harness and, if necessary, a jack line. The lanyard should be long enough to let you fall over and drag along behind (You don't want to be suspended half-way over the side, yet if you make it short enough to prevent falling over at all, it will be a huge hassle because you won't be able to move about enough to operate the boat). If motoring, your engine lanyard would have killed the engine, so it would be safe to climb over the transom. If sailing, the boat is not likely to be going more than 7 knots, which would allow you to climb back on pretty easily.

Another thing that people do in open areas is to trail a floating line behind the boat with a small float at the end - the idea being that if you fall over, you grab that line and pull yourself back to the boat. Obviously, this has it's pitfalls and you cannot use it in busy waterways where some stinkpotter dork is going to insist on crossing behind you at less than 60 feet or so.

- AndyS